The Blacktail Coach Podcast
We're here to share tips, strategies, and stories of hunting the Pacific Northwest.
Whether you're a seasoned hunter or just getting started, we'll help you turn preparation into achievement and passion into results.
So gear up and get ready, because SUCCESS IS NO ACCIDENT!
The Blacktail Coach Podcast
Cross the Divide: Using God's Creation to Help Veterans Navigate Life's Terrain
The transformative power of connecting veterans with the outdoors forms the beating heart of this conversation with Emile "Mo" Moured, founder of Cross the Divide Ministries. After 28 years as a Navy and Marine Corps chaplain, Emil channeled his passion for serving veterans and love for wilderness experiences into creating a ministry that has explosively grown from two states to thirteen in just four years.
Cross the Divide represents a beautifully simple yet profound approach: combining God's truths with God's creation to help veterans navigate life's challenging terrain. Unlike organizations that merely offer recreational activities, they provide skilled facilitators who can walk alongside veterans through meaningful conversations that naturally emerge during hunting trips, fishing expeditions, backpacking journeys, and horse camps.
What began with a focused mission has organically expanded through what Mo calls "God-ordained providential opportunities." From unexpected connections with ranch owners offering their properties to partnerships with the Navy SEAL Foundation, doors continue opening in remarkable ways. Perhaps most compelling is the ministry's commitment to involving entire families in their experiences, recognizing that true healing happens when veterans and their loved ones share new, positive narratives together.
The impact speaks volumes through stories like the Marine veteran who lost his leg to an IED in Afghanistan. After participating in a Cross the Divide hunt, he declared: "This is the most alive I've felt in 14 years." Such transformations aren't anomalies but represent the heart of their mission.
Operating without salaried staff and relying entirely on volunteers and donations presents challenges in balancing growth with sustainability. Yet the ministry continues forward, driven by the knowledge that these experiences create community and purpose for those who've served our nation. To learn how you can participate in events or support their mission, visit crossthedivideus.com and become part of this powerful movement connecting veterans with healing through God's creation.
Bootcamp & Coaching
Welcome back to the Black Tail Coach Podcast. This is Aaron, and today we are with a special guest, emil Bored Mo from Cross the Divide Ministries. So we've been working with you since I believe this is our fourth year. This is our fourth year, yeah, doing the class for you guys, which the first couple of years I didn't make it. I was working on Saturdays and finally Dave and Asha said you have to come up because it was originally up in Poulsbo and it's like you got to see this, which, growing up in Port Orchard, so I'm a local boy up there I was like, well, it's Poulsbo, it's where I grew up and yeah, it's different when you can get away, kind of for a weekend up there and stuff. So we wanted to talk to you about Cross the Divide and what you're doing and stuff. So why don't you tell us, start off telling us about your background and how that led you to start Cross the Divide?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, first of all, for the folks listening who aren't familiar with it, cross the Divide is a nonprofit. It's an outreach to veterans and their families. Our goal is to help veterans navigate the challenging terrain of life you know we bring. I like to think we we are facilitators of hope and healing and really transformation in people's lives by bringing them into experiences the outdoors hunting, fishing, backpacking, llama packing, horse camping, all these things and we apply biblical principles to what we do and folks who come to these events. They may or may not have any particular faith, but what they find is that these principles work. God's truths in God's creation is a powerful equation for success. So Cross the Divide started right after I retired in 2021.
Speaker 2:So I did 28 years in the Navy and Marine Corps as a chaplain and as I retired just to answer your question, you know how did this begin when I was about to retire and I was thinking what's next. You know, prayerfully trying to consider what to lean into to try to have an impact and other people's continue to have an impact specifically in veterans lives, because that's that's been my passion right For three decades and it grew up in a home where my dad was a world war two combat infantry vet. So it's been in my blood for forever. Just trying to think what's the next step and realizing that God had also given me this passion, this desire to do things outdoors, I thought, well, how do we combine those two things? And the natural outcome was Cross the Divide.
Speaker 2:At the same time, a buddy of mine who is a retired Navy SEAL called me one day and said hey, there's this property down in Eastern Oregon. There's a gal who's been serving veterans through the exact kind of thing that you're wanting to do and she's looking to sort of phase out and hand it over to somebody. And, long story short, I was not able to take over the camp, which I think was her desire. She did a wonderful work, but what we were able to do is through a transition of reincorporating what she was doing, expanding the scope from this one camp in Eastern Oregon to 13 states 14 states I think we've had events in now to also make the mission a little bit more fine-tuned to being overtly faith-based.
Speaker 2:And also her focus was specifically post 9-11 combat wounded veterans, which is an amazing mission. But we have expanded that to serve all veterans and their families because we feel like it's really important for veterans to not just have a great experience and then go back into the family system. That has no idea of what they've just experienced and a lot of times they revert to sort of old ways of interacting. So what we try to do as much as possible is involve the families in that experience so that way they're having that together, they're sharing some kind of narrative together. That's new, that's positive, and they can sort of experience transformation going forward together as well.
Speaker 1:And so you've done, like couples outreach, couples retreats as well, or couples camps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. Um, so that has been the desire from the beginning to do marriage retreats or couples events and we did not do couples events the first two years it was mostly veterans and they could bring their families with them, especially like on our hunting trips.
Speaker 2:We did a llama packing trip for fathers and their children one year, but last year was the first year. We did an actual no-kidding couples retreat. It was a horse camp in Central Oregon in the Bend area in the Deschutes National Forest. That was super popular, so much. So we're doing two this year Excellent. And we've also added a marriage retreat.
Speaker 2:We're partnering with a fantastic organization called Protectors Peak, run by a now retired law enforcement officer in northern Idaho, and we're actually bringing in Navy SEALs and their spouses, navy SEAL veterans and their spouses, in coordination with the Navy SEAL Foundation. And that all started because I reached out to them when we started four years ago and said, hey, across the divide, here's what we do, here's how we can help. And their response was sort of like hey, that's great, what we could really use is help with marriages, and can you do that? And I was like, yeah, and through a series of events we've just been delayed until this year. But we're excited. We put the word out and within two weeks it was filled up. So we're really excited about that. We're also looking at doing a marriage retreat in Wyoming later this year. Those are brand new.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So what year did you actually get your official start? Because I was looking at the website and so getting some background information, and I've looked at your website in the past, but not in the context of, hey, I want to actually interview you and get the word out with what you're doing to our community as well. So when did you actually get your start with CrossFit Advice? Because it looked like there was a shift over the last few years.
Speaker 2:get your start with Cross the Divide Because it looked like there was a shift over the last few years. Yeah, so that camp I was referring to, that this gal ran in Eastern Oregon, was called Divide Camp. Cross the Divide started January of 2022. So there was a bit of a turnover between September of 21, when I retired, and January of 22 when we actually kicked off Cross the Divide. So we reincorporated the nonprofit that she had started. Again, new mission, also a new board. The board is completely veteran-based right now, so it's sort of organized and run by veterans for veterans kind of a thing. So we've been going since January of 22 as Cross the Divide. The organization, legally as far as the IRS is concerned, has existed for about 11 years.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So when you talk about January 2022, it's interesting because I think it was like May or June of that year, we did our first class. Dave came up and did his first class with you guys, and so it's interesting when you reincorporated in January and it was a ministry partner with you that actually reached out to Dave or saw David at one of the sportsman shows and reached out, and so I know when we first started, it was kind of a hey, they reached out to us about doing this class and so it was like, oh okay, because we were trying to figure out, well, how do we work with nonprofits. So it actually really got us focused. So what do we? You know, because Blacktail Coach is for profit, but it's still a ministry for us, a way to create a community, but that kind of pushed us, you helped push us into okay, what communities are we looking to reach out to? And so it became veterans, which is why we do veteran discounts on all of our stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for doing that. But then families you know it's another big thing. We want families out hunting together or enjoying the outdoors together, encouraging those. So I know it's been a really great partnership for both of us throughout that. So you've been expanding into states. I heard you talk about that earlier, but when we were getting started here today that it's kind of blowing up. So tell us about what you're doing in other states and how that's expanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, aaron. So the initial vision was just to focus on Eastern Oregon and Western Washington, which is kind of the two areas where we had people, our primary hunting facilitator or guide, andy Markham, who is just an amazing individual.
Speaker 2:He and his whole family have a great ministry when we bring hunters and their families there. And then I was in Western Washington and so we started running backpacking events out of the Olympic National Forest National Park. And you know, we didn't have any money. Well, that's not true. We had some money that was dedicated specifically for backpacking events, so that was an easy reach. But we didn't have a lot to do. A whole lot of other stuff, but very quickly.
Speaker 2:So the individual that you're talking about, jeff Lander, with Tie that Binds, or Paraclete International at the time, or Paraclete Ministries, he was the one that linked us up. So all these connections started happening. And you know, without going through the laundry list of all these connections and it was what ended up happening was? You know, people would ask me well, what's your five-year plan? And I'm kind of like well, I'm going to follow God's lead on this. I don't feel the need to have a. But having said that, you know, if we have events in five states in five years, yeah, that's exciting, that's a win, you know. Whatever, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, within 10 months we had events in eight different states and it was just one partnership after another. Just things started bubbling forth and different connections from different means, and you know the main thing was do you know what we're about? Like again, god's truths and God's creation. You know we're trying to help veterans navigate the challenging terrain of life, bringing their family and if you get that and not everybody's a skilled facilitator, some people are good at guiding but not great at facilitating, and the facilitating part is what really sets us apart from there's a lot of other veteran organization, veteran service organizations that do similar stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot of people who love to go out and sit around a campfire and drink beers and laugh, or go out and hunt and campfire and and drink beers and and laugh, or go out and hunt and you're like, hey, if you can get me an elk, that's a great thing.
Speaker 2:Or get me a deer, like, and that is fun. Don't get me wrong, I mean love to get out there and harvest stuff myself, but but what we're about is so much more than that. So it was important to find partners who got that part too, like who could walk through people's deep water with them, not force them into the deep water, but you know, as those discussions happen, as we invite them into those discussions, or they just happen when you're on a hunt or on the river or in a trail or whatever that they know how to navigate that, and so finding the right partners has been huge and we've just been so blessed. So we've got folks like Adam Corman in Pennsylvania, mike Kramer in North Dakota, mike Strong in Indiana, who's a sheriff's deputy but he's also a Marine, andy Markham and Dan Bostet in Eastern Oregon, who are both Marines, and now they're joined by Lyle McDonald, who's also a Marine. We've got a lot of Marines for some reason which they're close to my heart.
Speaker 2:You know my 28 years. I spent 13 of my 28 years serving Marines. So, and all you know Marine infantry. So I love, I love the devil dogs, but we've had events in in now 13 States and it's just part of me. Honestly, we're always wanting to grow, especially when you're in the military, like you never. When you're writing the narrative for your yearly evaluation, or in the Navy we call them fitness reports, or Army I think it's OER or whatever. When you're putting it like, you never want to say I did less than I did last year, you know, because that's sort of like a career killer. But the reality is, sometimes you've got to pull back and make the foundation strong and secure so that you can grow in a healthy way.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I've been telling our folks that every year, like we need to just dial it back and focus on foundation. And then I totally violate my own principle Because stuff comes up right. I mean, it's like you know when things. Finally, when all the pieces lined up and we got a, I got linked up with a recently retired chaplain who spent most of his time on active duty with the Navy Steels.
Speaker 2:He was part, he was with them when Extortion 17 happened, which you may not be familiar with, but a lot of our, your listeners, who may be familiar with what happened when SEAL Team 6 went down in Afghanistan. Like he was with them. So he's this well-known commodity in the SEAL community. When he showed up and the SEAL Foundation was ready to go and like, how do you say no to that? Like, how do you say no? And at the same time, nate Harder from Protectors Peak was like, hey, we just want to gift you our um, our property, for you know an event or two in Northern Idaho. Like, like when God basically says okay, I know what you're trying to do, but I'm coordinating all the pieces and I'm just going to drop this in your lap and all you literally have to do is say yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And take the next step. Yeah, it's hard to you know, it's hard to say no, but that's kind of how. The question of how did you go from zero to 13 states or whatever it's been? It's a long story, it's a lot of networking, but it's a lot of God-ordained providential opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the right guys hearing about it. Yeah, and ladies, that's another thing.
Speaker 2:We started doing women's retreats two years ago. A gal on our board who's a retired Air Force officer, tammy Orton, wonderful woman who has had her heart and invested her time in women's ministries to veterans for years. She started doing these for Cross Divide two years ago and to just to be blessed to have these kind of connections before I left active duty, that have persevered past active duty and then some of these new relationships just in the last few years, like with you all it's been man, I feel like I'm on a. I'm just on a ride and all I have to do is hold on and you know I'm not the one directing it, somebody else's and it's just been a blast, you know it's one.
Speaker 1:It's been interesting when I hear Dave talk about creating his system for hunting and you expect certain people to get on board right from the start and they weren't. And then you have different people that you didn't know existed Basically they weren't in your. Then you have different people that you didn't know existed basically they weren't in your circle, but then they show up. So it sounds like you've had these people that you weren't expecting showing up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a little of both. You know, like another guy, that he runs a trout fishing retreat for us every year, terry Buley. I met him when I was still on active duty and we were just talking one day. He's also a financial guru and when he started learning he does my, he manages my investments for me, and he started asking me about Cross the Divide and I was like, would you like to do something? He's like I'd love to. So there's things like that.
Speaker 2:But then there's people who come in out of the blue, like Dave, like Nate Harder in Northern Idaho, like this gentleman who owns a ranch down in Texas I just met two weeks ago, who heard about what we do and said I want to gift you my ranch to use for veterans and their families and you know whether they're wounded veterans or gold star families or whatever and you just come down and use it. I mean that's that is a gift worth. I don't know, I don't swim in those that that world normally, but I'm guessing those kinds of trips are normally like 10 to $15,000.
Speaker 2:So, somebody says you know, I believe in your mission and what you're doing and I know you're a nonprofit, so I just want to gift this to you. Like those again, like you said, those providential meetings with people I didn't even know, I wouldn't have, couldn't have told you their names a year ago or their. That's just been amazing to be a part of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really, it's just really interesting hearing a lot about this and how that explosive growth cause we've seen it as well. But there's also that you want to maintain the quality and so kind of my role, amongst other things, is I'm the pump, the brakes, because Asha, especially Asha, will go nuts with ideas. Oh really, oh yes, and she has really great ideas.
Speaker 2:She's really well structured and she does such a great job with the details too, so that's a unique balance to be a creative idea person and also a detail-oriented person. That's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean it's oh, I came up with a new logo for some more T-shirts. It's like, how about we sell the 500 T-shirts we have and then we come up with some new logos, because it was a new logo every couple of months, but things like that. But you know, I've been like the, the pump, the brakes and let's make sure this is all quality, but it's still kind of blown up and even like with this, with the podcast, I do another podcast with another friend hobby, whatever, but I'm like, yeah, we should do one. And then this is just blown up, which has caused everything else to blow up, which has caused us to think, okay, maybe it's time that we now do some of those big plans that Asha came up with that are really great, but we weren't there yet.
Speaker 2:So well, and you know people always talk about when you're, when you're trying to get launched something or grow something, that scalability and sustainability are too important. It sounds like the scalable piece we've both been experiencing in just a wonderful way and you and I are both also trying to keep the sustainable part in mind because, you know, I just I think of. I mean, this is honestly, I'm reading a book now about just an analysis of ancient cultures and politics and how that was something that even hundreds or thousands of years ago that they would focus on is we can't grow too fast. We have to make sure that the infrastructure keeps pace with the growth because if it doesn't, things are going to crumble really quick. And as much like I say for me, as much as I've been mindful of that and as many things as I've said no to, yeah, it's so hard when you know you can impact people's lives and life is short, like if this is a race and you know, think of life as sort of a race.
Speaker 2:I feel like you and I are going to get to the finish line one day and we're going to go I don't care if it's at 58 or 88 and we're going to look back and go wow, that went by really fast, you know, and I just want to invest my time in things that are worthwhile and going to change people's lives. Yeah, the other thing, you know you mentioned that you're a for-profit versus a nonprofit, because I also own a business and so I get I get both pieces. The business kind of helps me personally, put food on the table so I can feed my nonprofit addiction. So I'll tell you that's like one big difference is that when I have a business, I'm selling a product that generates income. So you sort of have one from a 30,000 foot view. You have like one major line of effort and that's to create and sell this product, and then the product generates the income.
Speaker 2:But, when you're a nonprofit, you're serving people that does not necessarily generate income and you're and you're not really doing it to try to generate income from the people you're serving.
Speaker 2:So you have this whole other line of effort which is traditionally been called fundraising or partnership development or whatever you want to call it, and that I mean I kind of knew that cognitively going into this.
Speaker 2:But that has been a huge shift because the demand to step in and help veterans in powerful ways which Cross the Divide does like, statistically, the change we see in people's lives, the lack of suicidal ideations or suicides from people who leave Cross the Divide events, all these things it's so powerful it doesn't translate into income nearly as readily. It's trying to share that narrative with people who see what we're doing and have a passion for what we're doing and want to step in and say I can't do it, you do it, I can't do it, but here's what I can do. I can help make it happen by providing you this land or this property or with a financial donation or volunteer time. And that's where it's been a challenge, honestly, because we are, I would say that we're that balance between making sure the foundation, the infrastructure, which for us is our support keeps pace with the growth. That is a real challenge. It's for every growth. That's a real challenge is for every nonprofit.
Speaker 1:It's interesting when you're talking about that. So one of the things I would say that really surprised us most when we started this is we thought we're creating a product and we're going to sell this product it's the classes but then all of a sudden, we started meeting these really great people and this community kind of came out of what we're doing and we realized and I think that's what has driven home for all of us the ministry aspect of our work we see the community and that's our focus. We want guys who people women, men, husbands, wives, families, just all of that. We want that community to grow. We want, you know, people to feed off of each other and it's, you know, it's amazing when guys who go through different courses connect with each other on Facebook and start having lunch and start getting together and become friends and, yeah, that that ends up being the real blessing for all this. It's great having lots of people show up to the events, but when we see this community come together, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really fulfilling, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because otherwise it's something that if it weren't for that community, I think, if things didn't go well we recently had changes with the state, with baiting and with doing cents it would have been easier to walk away. Well, it's just a business, it's a side business for all of us, we could walk away. But when it's that community, it's that obligation of no, we want to. We want to stick with these group of people we've put together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, and I use the word obligation and I know, and that's that may be true, but I know what you mean is it's more than just a ought to, it's a want to like like it's an obligation, because you feel this.
Speaker 2:You know that it is incredibly fulfilling for the people that like to just give them knowledge is is worthwhile and there's some fulfillment in that, but for them to be part of a community is where the real fulfillment for them comes in, and for you, yeah, but you see that you know that's where the power is, and so you and you care about that's really what it comes down to. You care about these people, which is maybe a weird thing to say for somebody who's quote selling a product, but I know you guys do. You care about the folks who are listening to this podcast, who come to your seminars, who do the coaching, who buy your product, et cetera, et cetera, and and that's why you do that you know it's and it's. I'll tell you we I mentioned this trip to Texas.
Speaker 2:I could tell a guy who came on a hunt three years ago and he and I served together in 2-7, 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, and he ended up losing a leg due to an IED that he hit in Afghanistan in 2008. But he came out on a hunt. That, in and of itself, is a fantastic story. If you ever want to go on our YouTube channel you can see it's the Ty Woods Memorial Hunt with Master Sergeant Gabe Guest.
Speaker 1:I actually did watch that Okay. Yeah, because it's been up for about a year.
Speaker 2:A few years. Yeah, oh, a few years Okay.
Speaker 1:I watched it, I believe after the show left Right on. Yes.
Speaker 2:So he's not only just a wonderful human being but he's a good friend and we want to get him out there. But like a lot of our folks who go through combat, who are leaders of war fighters in combat, you know he came back with a lot of not just physical but personal challenges he was working through and to hear him at the end of those four days, after having some real struggles, say this is the most alive I felt in 14 years, that was one of the most meaningful things. So we go to Texas a couple weeks ago and Gabe is actually the guy that introduced me to this rancher just outside of San Antonio. So we went kind of a long way around to visit with Gabe and his wife and I brought all of our participants for that event with me so they could meet him.
Speaker 2:For what you're saying, it's like we're not just going to have an event Like I want you to be part of this cross the divide family and I want you to to see the impact of what we do on a, on an individual like Gabe, and have him tell you directly his story and help Cause. A lot of the folks that were coming on this event were our guides and facilitators from around the country. So these were part of the cross the divide team our guides and facilitators from around the country. So these were part of the Cross the Divide team and I wanted them to understand like this, exactly what you just said. This is about changing people's lives and it's about building community. It's not about just doing a really cool thing for a day or for four days and then saying see ya, and wasn't that fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's so much more than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we tell people at the end of our classes it's, we don't teach a class and kick you to the curb. You're part of this community and so, yeah, be part of the community Right on, as much or as little as they want, but you know it's your participation, we're not determining that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and you and Dave and Asha are such wonderful, personable people. I hope the folks listening to your podcast really understand what you're saying and take you up on that offer, cause it's that's I think that's where the real power comes in. You know, whatever, whether you know, it's more than about just hunting.
Speaker 1:Yeah and again. So you know we have five pro staff. Two of them were people that Dave knew before starting this company.
Speaker 1:One of them was actually one of the guys who was in his youth group, and there's a lot of other guys who are, you know, we're texting all the time back and forth and they're asking questions and just checking in with each other and it's like I said, it's the community is what really. We've been blown away by all of that. So I want to talk about, like your favorite outdoor experiences, my background. I grew up hiking. In fact, it was really interesting when you talked about doing the hiking trips up in the Olympic mountains. That's where I got my started Boy Scouts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, 40 years ago was hiking the Olympic mountains. What are your favorite outdoor activities that you like to do, that you just love doing?
Speaker 2:You know, growing up my favorite two outdoor activities were bass fishing and backpacking. It wasn't until I was gosh 40, maybe 40, early 40s that a friend of mine, mike Williams, who's still on active duty, and another buddy of mine, bruce Crowderfield, who retired. They're both bow hunters and Mike said to me he goes, you really enjoy backpacking that much. I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, why? Why do you ask like that? He goes. Well, honestly, most people don't enjoy just living out of the backpack for days on end. I'm like, really Like. I mean, it was, it was puzzling to me, cause I'm like why wouldn't you Right?
Speaker 2:But then I was like okay, being a little bit older, with, as you know, some aches and pains, it actually makes more sense now. But some people just don't enjoy it, right? So he goes, you like hunting? I'm like I've never you know never been hunting. You know, grew up in an area where there wasn't a whole lot of opportunity hunting. I said, but I think I would. He goes you should try bow hunting. I'm like, really why? And he just kind of explained, like, if you think you'd enjoy hunting and you like getting deep in the woods, you should try. And he explained why. And it just sounded so cool to me.
Speaker 2:Next opportunity I had, I bought a bow, started putting, you know, arrows through targets, I started learning everything I could, uh, self-teaching. And then I went online and I found somebody to go hunting with. My wife was a little concerned. She's like so you're going hunting with my wife was a little concerned. She's like so you're going hunting with this guy and you've never met him and you don't even know who he is. Yeah, well, where'd you find him? Well, it was some online forum, you know. She's like she. You know, to her it was like I went on Craigslist and found a date and I'm about to get murdered or something I'm like. Well, you know, most hunters aren't that type A or people who do this and B. You know, I've got a weapon on me too, so I don't think he's going to be those kinds of people. Look for soft targets, not hard targets, right? So anyway. So it ended up being a wonderful experience, and he and I hunted for a few years together before life kind of took us in different directions.
Speaker 2:And we got into elk every year in Western Washington. I don't think I realized that it wasn't supposed to be that easy until later, as I talked with more and more people yeah, Even these two guys, Bruce and Mike, that got me into bow hunting when I told them like, like, getting into deer, getting into elk every year in Western Washington which, as you know, is harder because we're talking thick, steep stuff, black-tailed deer and Roosevelt elk, which have gotten quieter and quieter over the years. And so when I told them like oh, yeah, I'm getting into animals, they're like, you realize that's not necessarily the norm.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, listening to a bull bugle at 30 yards away and having it reverberate through your being, there's nothing like it. So I would say, at the top of that list nowadays is bull hunting. Unfortunately, my body is making it harder and harder for me to get out there and do that kind of deep backcountry stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's I mean. Actually that's why Dave had to start this system. He got Lyme's disease and he talks about this a lot that he can't do the high country, the backcountry stuff anymore Although his son is getting into that and he went in with a friend last year. Miles in his friend got an elk and he's young enough and strong enough and fit enough to do two or three trips back and forth hauling that elk out. And I'm like, okay, I like Dave's system because I've been hunting two years now. I've done bird hunting in the past, but I was like I can't do that, I don't really want to do that and yeah, it's interesting backpacking and for me it was saltwater fishing on the.
Speaker 2:Puget Sound. That's what I grew up doing.
Speaker 1:Not really hunting, although there were lots of great habitat back then and you could actually get into the woods. They weren't all gated and all that, but across the divide. So what other events do you have coming up?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this year we've got a llama packing. We typically do between one to four llama packing trips a year, so we've got that coming up. We've got. We were planning on doing initially two horse camps, again a marriage or a couple's horse camp and a men's horse camp, but we wanted to add a woman's horse camp and so this year we're actually just got to again the whole thing of like not doing, not over committing, right. So I just got off the phone yesterday with Jeff Campbell. He and his wife Penny, wonderful people, salt of the earth, people down there in Bend, oregon, with stirrup purpose, who do our horse camps for us. They're planning on, they're like, well, let's do five. And I'm like Jeff, just so you know I didn't budget for five, I'm like I've budgeted for two, but he's like that's all right, he's like you know, he's like you know that helps a lot. But you know we just we love these. They're just wonderful people and veterans that have gone on those events just come back supercharged and changed.
Speaker 2:We've got, I mentioned, the marriage retreat for Navy SEALs in Northern Idaho. We've got the one in Wyoming that is under development. We do one-on-one and group fly fishing trips in Pennsylvania, which also has turned into Western Virginia. We've got a hunt for heroes we do for four veterans in November in Indiana. We do a pheasant hunting trip, multi-day trip, every year in North Dakota with Mike Kramer. He also kind of does stuff in the evening with everybody, just kind of you know quote unquote campfire conversations, but they're indoors so there's no campfire.
Speaker 2:We've got the trout fishing. In fact if you're anywhere near Arkansas and you'd like to go on the trout fishing retreat, that is in October and that is a fairly new date as well, so let us know. We'd love to hook you up with Terry Buley down there. We've got a ton of hunts in Eastern Oregon. Most of those are already full because we kind of have to identify hunters soon. But and then in Western Washington we have I don't have the dates on me, but we've also got things you know like backpacking type trips and rustic retreats. We've got another place that also has donated their their retreat site a bunch of cabins there in the in the foot of the Olympic national forest. It's just, yeah, I'm. I know I'm missing something, because I told you how many States we've had stuff in, but we've got a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Keep the whole calendar in your head. Even we have a limited calendar and it's still wait a minute. When is that? What are we doing? So, yeah, I get that, but if people wanted to find out about these events, whether people who want to partner with us, I got to tell you one more thing.
Speaker 2:And he's probably listening to me right If he's hearing this podcast. He's like I can't believe you've totally forgotten me. So Corey Watson, who helped us get our tags in Oregon for years, he moved to Tennessee about a year ago, started Cross, the Divide, tennessee. It has exploded. He's got I mean, he's fully retired from the Army and Marine Corps and he did both. But this is what he focuses on and he is amazing.
Speaker 2:He gets folks on deer and pig and take some bass fishing and we've got a track chair there and in Eastern Oregon and so we had a Vietnam veteran who couldn't walk, get out there and harvest a deer in a track chair and he said this was the first deer he's harvested since he got back from Vietnam. He's like I've gone out with other organizations and they just kind of other these veteran service organizations. They're nice, he's like, but they just kind of stick me out and say have fun. He's like this is the first time I've actually had somebody stay with me, mentor me through it, help me with everything from you know, load me up to to field, dress in the animal, to everything, and that's what Corey and he's yeah, corey is an amazing.
Speaker 2:Again, if you are anywhere near or could get to Tennessee and would like to go on a hunt there and you're a veteran, let us know and love to hook you up with Corey, so, and there's I know there's somebody. I'm sitting here forgetting and I apologize if you're listening to but's uh, yeah, there is, there's a lot going on chris swan is our guy in the northwest who's leading the the different events out here.
Speaker 2:So if you're, if backpacking or llama packing is is your interest, there's that, and I'd already talked about jeff and penny and the horse camps down in bend.
Speaker 1:I'll stop okay, no, I understand it's trying to remember all the people and everything, but but if they need to hear about it, how would they find, how do they find, cross the Divide Someone who wants to either partner with you or support you or participate in?
Speaker 2:your events. How do they find Just cross the divide Like think of a cross that is bridging the gap between a divide between two sides. That's us crossthedivideus. And if they want to donate they can go to the donate page. That is huge. If you believe in what we're doing and want to help veterans, we would love to partner with you and have you lean into it with us.
Speaker 2:If you're interested in the events, for yourself or somebody else. There's a contact page. You can reach out to us through that. And one of us you know we're a again, we're a small operation and we have no salaried staff. We have no full time equivalents. Well, I'm, I work on this full time but I don't get paid a salary. So sometimes you know if I'm out on an event or whatever. Our response time may not be, you know, within 24, 48 hours, but we try.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, great to hear I'm glad our listeners were actually able to hear about your organization, what you're doing. Like I said, fourth year we've been working with you. We love coming back here and it's been a blessing, I think, both ways, absolutely. So yes, we hope that God richly blesses you, keeps everything under his control, but that you don't feel too overwhelmed with it. But yeah, we know that that's probably where you're headed, is just wherever God's leading you, and we appreciate that, so appreciate what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, this has been fun. Love having you guys out every year and I feel like I learned something in hearing Dave share his testimony. I think is so powerful. So if you haven't come out to one of these events, look them up, get to a Blacktail Coach seminar or link up with Dave and do some one-on-one coaching. You won't be disappointed.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you, and we will talk to.
