The Blacktail Coach Podcast
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The Blacktail Coach Podcast
Data-Driven Deer Hunting
Unlock the secret advantage that consistently successful hunters rarely talk about – the strategic use of data. Aaron and Dave pull back the curtain on how scientific information, personal observations, and community knowledge can transform your hunting success while most hunters leave these resources completely untapped.
The conversation reveals how state wildlife biologists are an underutilized gold mine of information. When approached with genuine interest and courtesy, these professionals often share specific locations and timing details that lead directly to trophy animals. One conversation with a biologist put Dave "right on" a trophy bull moose when other hunters were struggling to even locate animals in the early season heat.
You'll discover how interpreting trail camera data requires a different mindset than most hunters apply. Summer patterns rarely translate to fall hunting scenarios, particularly for mature bucks who typically remain in small core areas until the rut begins. Instead of focusing on capturing buck images in summer, learn why documenting doe patterns provides more valuable intelligence for when hunting season arrives.
The hosts explore critical metrics from state wildlife reports that predict hunting quality, particularly calf and fawn survival rates. Their discussion of predator impacts includes a sobering example from Eastern Oregon, where changing management policies resulted in calf survival plummeting to just 11%, decimating a once-thriving elk population of nearly a thousand animals.
Whether you're a blacktail fanatic or pursue other big game species, this episode delivers actionable insights on using harvest statistics, wildlife management plans, and community knowledge to stack the odds in your favor. For hunters serious about consistent success, it's time to embrace the power of data alongside traditional woodsmanship.
Nilch'i wind checks nilchi.com
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron and I'm Dave. This week we're talking about using data for your hunts. I come up from a field education that is very data-driven. When we do something, we're always saying what does the data say? What is it telling me? What should be my response to what data I've collected? And so I think that with the coaching, with the classes, this is all new stuff that we've kind of introduced from the black tail coach into the hunting community, education and classes and coaching, and now we're talking about using data. So it's a foreign concept, I think, for a lot of just in this particular field.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I would absolutely agree.
Speaker 1:But I would say it's just a lot of my way of thinking and Asha's way of thinking that we've kind of introduced to you, but I think, a lot of hunters. This is all natural.
Speaker 2:We're just kind of giving a name to what you probably are already doing, is my guess well, I I don't know if I to some extent, to some extent I think that that a lot of the, the stuff that we go over, is basically a lot of it's an untapped resource, to be honest with you yeah as far as reaching out to game biologists and whatnot, not a lot of guys do that.
Speaker 2:You know, and and and honestly you're, you're really ignoring a great source of information. Every time I go on an out-of-state hunt, especially if I'm going on an out-of-state elk hunt, I mean, now you know we, if we're in grizzly country, just the simplest stuff, contacting the game biologists where the grizzlies in that area, you know, because typically, like Montana, they know, they know exactly that those, those bears have either been tagged or they keep an eye on them because the human interaction and encounters, you know, and they just try and keep tabs on those bears and and and.
Speaker 2:That's another thing. You know, you've heard me say it. I don't like hunting in areas where my head has to be on a swivel the whole time. Yeah, you know, you've heard me say it. I don't like hunting in areas where my head has to be on a swivel the whole time. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so, because it's hard for me to relax and yeah, that's just a resource right there, you know, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1:As far as game biology, yeah, and I know especially for for guys who might be hunting sort of off topic but in grizzly country, knowing where they're at, especially if you're rifle hunting, because that rifle is a dinner bell. Yeah, we've heard so many stories that especially guys who go up to Alaska and they shoot and it is a race to get that deer out of there.
Speaker 2:Right, you know.
Speaker 1:Right Field dress and back on the boat if they're doing like Sitka and they're island hopping or you know where they're boating in Just to get out of there, because as soon as that gun goes off, any bear within earshot is coming in.
Speaker 1:Right right, yeah to find that. But so first there's state resources that we have access to, and you just touched on it the game biologist. So tell us some of your experience about using biologists, both locally and out of state, or out of area hunts, because it's not just for out of state, you could be calling them for local hunts too if you're a new area, but tell us about how you've used them.
Speaker 2:Well, for instance, we went hunting Idaho one time and I remember we reached out to the game biologist and just because it was a new area, we'd never been there and they were telling us, well, we started asking about the elk numbers, we started asking about success rate in certain units, we started asking where do you feel is the highest concentration? Where is the greatest cow to bull ratio? That kind of stuff. And then, on the flip side of the coin, I can think of a moose hunt where we were just over there and we spoke to several game biologists. Where have you seen, you know, especially with my buddy Kirk he drew the tag over in northeast Washington, it was my buddy Kirk, he drew the tag over in northeast Washington and early season, those moose, they're a lot harder to find in September than they are in November.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, you get snow on the ground and those moose they come down out of the higher country and they're just there. I mean, it's a school bus on the side of a hill. Oh yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. They're just monstrous. But all the foliage is down and you can see a lot more. But you know, when all the covers up and everything they're, they're really difficult sometimes to find. And yeah, we just tapped into the game by this, where you've been seeing them. If you've seen any good bulls, any big bulls, and you know where, where would you go? What would? What area do you think we should concentrate on? And because of that, we were successful in September, and you know.
Speaker 2:And then we go on social media and I'm, you know, because of the pro staff part of it, I'm on social media a lot you know, always every day and looking things over, and I think I don't think I saw anyone else and that's not to say that anyone wasn't successful but not on social media. You know, during that time it was a really, really hot September and we went over and we got it done Opening weekend and I attribute a lot of that to the game biologists.
Speaker 1:Game biologists. Yeah, just pointing you in the right direction you know, and that's a lot of it.
Speaker 2:you know that's big when you go into an area and you don't know where to start. Yeah, you it you know that's, that's, that's big, when you go into an area and you don't know where to start. Yeah, you know what I mean. It kind of gives you get your feet under you and helps you get off to a good start that was.
Speaker 1:That hunt was kind of funny because I knew more of where to go than I think you did because yeah I take.
Speaker 1:You know, I used to yearly take a road trip and go Highway 20 between I think it's Tenasket, through Republic out towards Kettle Falls Uh-huh, and I don't know if it's, I think it's two miles. It's either two miles before Kettle Falls or two miles before Republic. There is a little turnout by the side of the road and if you pull into that there's a pond by the road. Every time I've gone by there it's been like three different times I've seen moose. I've seen five moose in that little pond or on the hillside behind the pond, and so I said I just go there. And you were actually I don't know few miles away from right from that particular spot, but it was, yeah, it was kind of funny hey, I know where to go get some moose not even 100.
Speaker 2:I know, I know where one of those guys just doesn't know anything but talks like I do yeah yeah, I get to share in that.
Speaker 1:But have you used them ever? Used them for your hunts like Kellett's Lewis down here? Yeah, yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 2:One of my hunting partners is an absolute. He's an engineer and I mean he loves this stuff. He loves, you know, getting the numbers and going over it and and you know he's the guy that that when we're going, and you know he's the guy that that when we're going to put in out of state, he's going to, he's going to crunch the numbers and, you know, come back with three, three units or three tags we should put in for and ones we shouldn't waste our time on and all this stuff. But yeah, locally absolutely, and a lot of it's got to do because I'm looking for big black tail bucks, and so I contact them and I ask them specific questions. You know what county, what areas had the most rainfall?
Speaker 2:Because, that's always coincides with the best antler growth. What area did the state record come out of? What area has the highest percentage of bucks over three point harvested? What area has the highest percentage of bucks over four point harvested? What area you know has the least amount of bucks over a four point harvested? You know, and then it's like, well, why is that you start? It's a puzzle that you have to put together.
Speaker 2:You have to start thinking about okay, why are these successful here? Why are they not successful? And those are the questions you ask that game boss, because they can tell you that too. We feel that this is because they're doing this or because of this going on in this area, or they have this habitat, or whatever. This is why these hunters are being successful there, and they can tell you about spots that are up and coming.
Speaker 1:And I imagine it's also something where they could tell you. You like you don't know anybody who's pulled a buck out of a certain area, or it just seems like it's a dud of an area, right, but it might be because of topography or something, but there are huge bucks in there right, right.
Speaker 1:The harvest rate may be real, but the caliber of buck coming out of there is really good, you know, especially, I could think, if there's not a lot of recent logging and so there's not a lot of clear cuts, for guys to go hunt the clear cuts, if that's what they're choosing to do, or if it's an area where they can't do not spot and stalk, but driving road hunting you know, just driving along the roads and looking for something like that, not a lot of access to it, yeah, and there's, just there really isn't a lot of access for road hunting like there used to be, because you know gates
Speaker 1:and logging companies have gated off most of the woods, so have you had? Have you seen them be really, really specific, like if you go two miles down this road and one ridge over and oh, absolutely, they can get.
Speaker 2:yeah, you don't want them as a hunting partner okay, yeah they're. They're not going to keep any secrets, but a lot of them, and and what I would say to guys is, if you're going to tap into your game biologist number one first and foremost, be patient. Be patient because they're busy people. They don't always get back to you right away, but when they get back to you, be courteous, be kind, and they're going to pour out a lot of information on you.
Speaker 2:So be ready to take notes and really listen to what they're telling you. And I've always found that if you just strike up a conversation and just kind of okay, so how long you been doing this kind of stuff, and you get them on your side, they're really apt to tell you exactly where they've seen A good. For instance, is that moose hunt? They put us on a giant. They told us the exact timber patch where that bull and he had two cows were hanging out and everything.
Speaker 2:and, and what was funny is because they didn't, they didn't relinquish that, that information right up front yeah but because my buddy struck up a conversation with them and was just being friendly and just talking with them, one of them goes. You know what? I wasn't going to tell anyone this, but here's, we saw this one yesterday and it's just a toad, just a monster. They put us right on it, dropped us right in the lap of that bull.
Speaker 1:Nice Because, yeah, it didn't take you too long to Opening weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got them pretty quick.
Speaker 1:And then it was 24 hours of trying to cut that thing.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, that was a lot of work.
Speaker 1:So, as far as you know you might not know this or not game biologists do they have access to all lands. Is it built in for, I would say, say, the, the timber companies? They're gated, but does wdfw get keys to those gates so that they can go in there if that.
Speaker 2:That's something I don't know for sure, aaron, I'm sure they probably do I'm sure they probably do, you know yeah, I can't imagine them not having you know, because then then poachers could just stay on the timberland and never get busted, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I would think that they have access in there.
Speaker 1:Well, as far as any studies or anything like that, if they're going to for them to be able to go back in there yeah. For the biologists, the game wardens, I imagine.
Speaker 2:Habitat restoration projects and stuff like that. For the biologists, the game wardens, I imagine. Habitat restoration projects and stuff like that, yeah, which?
Speaker 1:you know, makes you want to go be a game biologist. No, I'm just back here doing the study with my rifle, with my bow, during season. Nothing to see here.
Speaker 2:It's weird, nobody else is back here.
Speaker 1:Using the old Jedi mind trick. These aren't the hunting grounds you're looking for yeah exactly so.
Speaker 1:Now I imagine this is true for other states, but for Washington WDFW their website they have a whole page that talks about just everything about the numbers and what the harvest rates are and everything. So they have game Status and Trends Report. So this is a 545-page report on all species that they put out, but it's Annual Status and Trend Report for Game Species Populations in Washington. For major species, separate sections cover each region or other management unit. That's cut and paste that from the website. But that just covers. It's broken down into different districts and it just it gets in there and just talks about that area.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And what's coming out of that area. So I'm sure this is all stuff that they're putting like the biologists are having some input with putting these together.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:They just give credit to. Wdfw is the author of this report.
Speaker 2:But there's game harvest reports and these provide annual hunting and trapping statistics for elk, deer, cougar, black bear and it says small game, but I didn't see small game on the website, so when I start looking at that and this is a big one, guys, and a lot of guys don't think about this Knowing that we have a predator problem what you guys really need to start focusing on and really start looking at is your calf and fawn survival rate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That is the telltale sign of how that unit is going to go. If that survival rate drops low, then you know that hunting in that area is going to start going down.
Speaker 1:I saw something and that's what's great about dialing into these reports and really finding out those details but I saw something. I think overall it's 0.5. But that's assuming two fawns are born to every doe every year and 0.5 survival rate. So basically one out of the two fawns will survive, which was true on one of my sets of a doe. I had her on camera with two fawns and after three, four months months she only had one fawn hanging around with her.
Speaker 2:I used to hunt a spot over in eastern oregon for elk and talking with the biologists that area, that that specific area where we were, was the calving grounds for the entire unit.
Speaker 2:All the elk in that unit, they said, would come down into that valley and calve down there, and so we would go out in the spring and just wanting to get over there, get out in the woods and that kind of stuff, and you would pull it and you would see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of head of elk in that valley because they were calving and they did their studies in there and they would tag 300 plus calves and then they would monitor those calves to see what the survival rate was. And as soon as I mean as soon as they started saying, okay, there's no hound hunting for bears, no baiting for bears, you can't run hounds on cats, you started seeing that survival rate going down, down, down and my friends, you know the people that I was hunting with at that time were just like, yeah, we need to keep going back, we need to keep going back when I was noticing that we were filling fewer and fewer tags.
Speaker 2:you know we were seeing fewer and fewer elk, we were hearing fewer and fewer bulls and it was getting harder and harder every year to locate the animals, you know. And so I asked the game biologists you know well what's the calf survival rate here? And this absolutely floored me. But they said, okay. So we tagged over 300, we monitored over 300 for the year, the survival rate, out of some number like 375 or something like that, and they said the survival rate for that year was 11. And I just thought to myself that's unsustainable. And now you go over there in that valley when they're calving and you don't see I don't think you see a hundred head of elk in that valley anymore. And when we first started going there, literally you were seeing 700 to a thousand head of elk. It was just insane the number of elk that were there.
Speaker 1:And now it's not there, you know, as the predators have come and it's the wolves also moving into the area, the wolves also moving in, so they've tipped that balance so far one way that there's just no survival rate on the calves.
Speaker 2:Well, that's your future.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting because they introduced them and I ended up doing the math. I think I saw a comment somebody made. It caused me to start looking into the numbers. This might be going a little off topic, but it's talking about the wolves and in Idaho there were 1,541 wolves and this was when they were trying to cull 90% of the wolves. They were giving out tags. They wanted 90% of the wolves gone, so they basically wanted to get it down to about 160 wolves. So I thought well, how many elk do wolves eat? Do 1,541 wolves eat a year? How many are they killing?
Speaker 2:27,000 elk a year.
Speaker 1:That's just crazy. And so then it's just looking at well, what's the replacement for in Idaho for the elk herds? You know, if there's, for the herds to grow, they have to be producing more than 27,000 elk a year. New calves, right? No, it wasn't even close. And so, yeah, of course they're going to start dwindling and then it becomes well, then it's big financial, but anyway, getting off topic here, but it's just interesting. But you can find out all this information and these trends by just jumping online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all there. It's all public knowledge. And that takes me to another. You know people want to stop and talk about. You know, the CWD and all this other stuff. Guys, all that information that you need to know, stop guessing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Stop guessing and stop making accusations. Go online, read about it. Be an informed hunter. If you're going to protest, protest with facts, because when you protest and you don't have the facts, we look ignorant. It doesn't help our cause. We need to be educated on these issues. You know, and it's right there on the websites. You see all the numbers. When you go to my seminars, I give a ton of information on deer behavior and studies and all this it's all off of those websites, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and reading through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not exciting reading, but I'm telling you when you're thinking about trophy animals every year when you're thinking, and that's the difference the guy that gets a trophy animal every year, as far as a let me rephrase it A guy that gets a record book buck every year, is a guy that thinks about that record book buck 11 out of 12 months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least you know, and he's thinking big picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, year round. He's always focused on her, she's always focused on it, you know. And so if you want something, you got to work for it.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting. So I pulled up the statewide 2024 statewide black bear harvest statistics. So this last year 1800 total black bears were harvested. So I don't know, and I mean I could go, hey, siri, how many black bears are in Washington state and it would tell me, and so this would tell me overall how many are out there 1,800 is not a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's nothing.
Speaker 1:Guys go hunt bear, and that might be where people think that they have to go out to the coast to get a bear, things like that, because the coastal region is where the most get harvested.
Speaker 2:But the success rate is 6% to 12%. I think guys are holding out for big ones too, and the reality is hey, you get two bear tags. Go kill the first thing you see and then hunt a big one. Yeah, you know what I mean we got to do something yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, take your kids out.
Speaker 2:That way you can let them shoot a couple. There you go. Wow, take your kids out. That way you can let them shoot a couple. There you go, there you go.
Speaker 1:But anyway, just pulling up randomly and I knew that it was really low because I had looked at this information below. But just now, while you were talking, I pulled up the WDFW website and looked at that. I was like out of this and I don't know what this particular area encompasses, but considering there's nine bear management units for the whole state in one ninth, 15 bears, you know that's.
Speaker 2:Golly.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you said, it's no wonder we got a bear problem.
Speaker 1:You know, the next closest was Blue Mountains and there's not a huge population out there. They had 92 harvests. Everywhere else is close to 250 to 300. A few places had a couple of hundred. So this is the information that you're finding from the website. So you got game status and trends reports, game harvest reports, which means if only 15 were harvested, harvested, there probably is a lot more out there oh my gosh and because we're we're not taking them out. What else is if, if hunters aren't?
Speaker 1:right so, and then you have game management planning. So these are. So what it says is the game management plan serves as guidance for three-year season setting cycle and any annual adjustment in hunting seasons. These timeframes are adopted so that hunters have consistent hunting seasons and managers can see how wildlife populations respond to the hunting framework. Seasons are adjusted annually to address local conditions. So all of that available. Wdfw, or you know, if you're in Oregon, Canada, I'm sure has the same type of information available to you Alaska, every state.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, has this type of information available?
Speaker 1:to you. They all have game biologists so you know good, good source to check those out. So that biologist and the website is really that's where you do your research, you know, because it might pinpoint you to a certain area, you know, using those two, resources, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I said, it's really untapped in comparison to the number of hunters out there. There are very few hunters that use that resource, and I mean you, you know. A fine example is I go back to that moose hunt. Put us right on that bull right on that bull.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just took a little finesse to?
Speaker 1:yeah, just a little talk get the guy to open up. So then there's your own data that you're collecting and you know and I'm calling it data, but it's just like scouting. You know and I'm calling it data, but it's just like scouting. You know what. What are you seeing? What data? Am I seeing tracks? Am I seeing signs, things like that, and that's that is giving you information. What's in the area, like you can you've talked about the size of the track will tell you the size of the buck or if it's a buck or a doe. There you go, data collection, just walking around the woods. Plus, you get to walk around in the woods, which there's nothing wrong with that, but you know you can collect data on winds prevailing versus thermals. You know time of day, best way into your set.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:And especially and this was and I talked about this a couple episodes ago about one of my sets I really got to figure out the wind and is it one that I have to go in in the morning, regardless if I'm going to hunt that set because of how I think the winds are going to react later on in the afternoon, when you know things start heating up or sun or something like that, which isn't, it might not be as much of an issue, but it still could be. Yep, but like going out there and hanging out all day and with my wind check and and and seeing what's what's happening out there, best way in and doing the wind checks for all that. But then trail cameras. So what's the data you should be gleaning from trail cams? Like, if you're putting them out now and you've been pretty open, you don't put them out until right before season, right, right, because you have your, your spots right and, like last year, I had them out all summer I had I won't say had them out.
Speaker 2:I had one out all summer and in a spot that a new spot that I'd found and guys, many of you guys heard about the locker room and everything and I just wanted to catalog what was in there and I was getting great picks and everything and was able to watch them. And I would say I did the same thing with Lucky in that area Totally different outcome on that one as far as the number of picks that I got. I think I saw Lucky in that buck two times in three years in the summer and that was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was it. And very few deer picks at all. A lot of bear, Very, very few deer picks. Locker room tons of deer picks.
Speaker 1:No bear, no bear, whatsoever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just. You know some areas are like that and whatnot, but typically I don't put them out until just before season. But I get it. Guys want to. They want to see deer, you know. You know they want that gratification of knowing that they did all this hiking and they're in an area where there's deer. And I would just say this guys, don't put a lot of weight in that during the summer.
Speaker 2:As far as picks in the summertime, we're not hunting them in the summer, you know. So where they summer and where they winter are two different spots inside that range. And in the summertime, just be more apt to be looking for, does you know? And because come the time when we get to go hunt them, where the does are is where the bucks are going to be. So if you don't get buck picks throughout the summer, no big deal, don't sweat it, don't get worried over it. No, I haven't seen a big one. I haven't that's all right, because you can't hunt that buck in the summer seen a big one? I haven't that's all right, because you can't hunt that buck in the summer.
Speaker 1:In the summertime he's somewhere where he's not going to be when hunting season comes, you know so I think we talked about it last year how you had the locker room and chris had field of dreams and you were getting big buck picks, like all summer yeah, and that just doesn't happen all the time but that was. That was throwing out a kind of a almost the wrong message and it was great that you were getting those.
Speaker 2:But like everybody was white, getting upset because they weren't getting big buck picks or hey, where do I? You know, should I put it out now? And and even now, guys coming up to me because they they saw those picks. Okay, I gotta get my camera out, I gotta get my camera out. I got to get my camera out. You're just like no, no, you don't. So you're right, it was kind of teaching them the wrong thing.
Speaker 1:And the locker room, public land landlocked, so those deer aren't going anywhere. Where they're going to summer and where they're at during season isn't much of a difference, whereas if you're talking about 52 acres in their core area, for example Riverside, I see two times and then another buck I call Junior, which looks like two times. From the first year I saw him. Two very nice bucks, but I see them the same time every year. Well, I don't see them at all during the summer, even though you know I saw a bunch of. I had a bunch of doe picks and stuff like that, but it's one of those. Early on you said, hey, if you see does, just be happy, you see does, and then that's fine, because come season with the bucks will be looking for those does.
Speaker 1:And yeah you know, it might just tell me so leaving those cameras up for a couple of years. The data I collected from that is like okay, he's only going to come down there for a week, 10 days at night.
Speaker 2:Right the same time every year, and that's a great point. That's a great point Because these bucks, even where they're summering, they don't move very far.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They stay in one area typically and then they don't typically come out of that area, whether it be where they're summering or whether it be their bedroom, until the rut. When the rut happens is when they start moving outside of that core area. But typically those bucks are, so I mean they're just how can I say? They're just kind of homebound. They don't like traveling. They just really don't cover a lot of areas. So if you're not right in where they want to be, whether it's summering or wintering, until the rut you're probably not going to see them. And when I say see them is get pictures on your camera, whether it be at night or day or whatever. But they're going to be traveling and moving more. They're going to reach the outer skirts of that range, otherwise they're going to hang most of the time just in a little, probably a little quarter acre, half acre spot. They're not going to go very far, they just don't travel a lot Because they don't need to.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Generally and what's interesting. So you know, I wrote down a note about time, deer moving, Thinking about Alex, and he realized, oh, they're not daylighting here. But if I go to this other spot and I'm not sure how far away that second spot was for Curry, but it was, oh, over there he's daylighting, so I'll just, I'll go over there. So it's, he was collecting data, you know, as he referred to it. So I put a camera out here, you know, for research purposes only. And that's exactly how it says.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it, it's, we're putting out the cameras for research purposes, and what he was doing is he was basically finding out the route that Curry was running.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, from the time that he left the bedroom till the time he came back and he figured out where he was daylighting in that route, and that's all it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I think just from my different sets is I've collected through the use of trail cams and going through a season of hunting of how they move, you know where should I be at what part of the day, different things like that. So it's interesting when because it's all just putting the puzzle together the more data you have, the more, the better, more informed decisions. Better picture you have, yeah, better picture you have the better decisions that you can make, based off of that picture?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Definitely so. Last little point here is and I call it data from the community.
Speaker 1:And whether it be mentors, or maybe you've joined a hunting club or an outdoorsman club. And what got me thinking about the outdoorsman club is us going to speak recently or you going to speak for an outdoors club down in Battleground? But just that community. And if you were to join that and at first I'm sure no guy wants to give up his spot but once you ingratiate yourself to that particular community just like with the biologist, you know you don't just hey, where do I go to find a big buck, it's hey how long you been working at you know, and it's ultimately I think you should be doing this to just make friends right, you know be nice to people, but that is one of the the things that can come from that is people helping you out, and
Speaker 1:you know, these are some of the things that I see when I go in and look like bud mentioning to me. You know, he you know I think I found the right habitat when I see mushrooms and a holly tree and those were just kind of like his thing. So if I were to go walk around and it's not because deer like mushrooms and holly trees, it's because mushrooms and holly trees grow in the same habitat that these bucks like from what he's found in, the habitat that he likes to hunt in.
Speaker 1:Well, we found those, but you know, you just find that from your community. And it's another thing, because as soon as he said that, it dawned on me one of my halfway set oh yeah, there's mushrooms all over the place. That place is filled with chanterelles. In fact, I was going to go out in September.
Speaker 2:Now this is a fine example. This is a fine example of what you're saying, the point you're trying to make here, because I never even thought of that stuff. Yeah, the chanterelles, the holly tree, all that stuff, leave it to Bud. You know who is just loving to death, but he's-.
Speaker 1:Things that he noticed.
Speaker 2:I know he just man, he just puts, and it sounds really dumb to say it or I won't. I'm sorry, but I won't say dumb. It sounds really weird to say it, like really kind of off the wall, but that's the way he is wired. He is a guy that notices details in the strangest areas.
Speaker 1:But you've done the same thing with hooker willows.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. But Bud's come up with this stuff quite a bit and I was telling him. This guy saw him this morning and I was talking with him and I was just like, dude, you've done the locating. I don't even know why I teach locating anymore, because he's so much better at it than I am. And he just had a laugh. He goes well, I just do everything you taught me. And I'm like no, this is you taking it to another level. But you know, getting to the, to the, the joining the club and everything, I think that's it's, it's always, it's good and it's bad. You gotta be careful, you know, because in every club there's always somebody this is and you hear me say this all the time this is a sport filled with egos, you know and it's there's always that one guy that wants to be the best hunter, and there's nothing wrong with that, but he wants to come across as the best hunter. I've got the biggest deer, I've killed the most deer, the biggest bull, the most elk, the biggest bear, whatever you know yeah.
Speaker 2:Try and be the guy that says I'm going to help make your candle brighter instead of trying to blow it out.
Speaker 1:I think I really like the saying that Jeff Danker. He used it when we were at the Buck Venture Summit it's serve first, and then we hunt. Yeah and there you go. That was. That was like the number one thing I took away from that that these are the type of guys and it's the type of end. But the club we went and that you spoke to, it seemed like surfers. And then we hunt yeah and it's that.
Speaker 1:But same thing with mentors. It's those, those guys who like, who will celebrate your success as much, if not more, than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go, that's it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that when you're granted the opportunity, when you're blessed with the opportunity to be a part of that memory, that wonderful, incredible memory for that person, you know we should feel privileged on something like that you know it's like oh, you're letting me be a part of this. You're asking me to come in and participate in something that's really important to you.
Speaker 1:And that's why we do the success stories with the podcast and we will do more of those this year that we want to celebrate. We want to celebrate with you and we want it in a big way. Right, we want our listeners to hear how you were successful. Absolutely yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:It's always fun to hear the stories, but to see and again, I was blessed enough to go on a lot of recoveries this last season and every one of them walking away with season and every one of them walking away with this is why this is why we do it. Yeah, you know seeing guys get teared up and and just get all excited and and whatnot, killing you know whether it's a record book or whether it's their trophy, but they're just excited. You know that's awesome to me.
Speaker 1:That's what I love but then getting to to hear that whole story and I think I brought it up at the bootcamp when I was talking to the guys at the end, when we were talking about mindset portion that there's an attribute of A you did a good job and people feeling like they did a good job because of this. It's the idea of with the podcast that you did a good job because you did all this hard work, you gathered the data, you researched things you thought about, you were thoughtful in your approach to this hunt and here's your reward for all that hard work for all that hard work Right right, and even if it's not a harvest, you're still rewarded with a good year because you probably learned a ton.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know and, honestly, if you had, I would say, if you're listening now and you've gone through one of our classes, if you really feel like this was just a successful year, even if you didn't harvest, I think I'd like to hear those too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Because my first year I felt really successful with how much I learned, being out in the woods for the first time and going through this process. I didn't harvest anything, but I still felt really successful which encouraged me to move forward for this year and my success, ie a harvest that came and I know next year. Well, now it kicks it up another notch, and it kicks it up another notch, and yeah, yeah, it's that confidence you get with every win. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know whether it's filling the tag or, like you say, just getting the knowledge that makes you feel like you can go out there and figure this out. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think that pretty much wraps it up. It's what is the state you know, what information are they providing you? What information can you go get for yourself? And then, what can you get from the people around you? Utilize those, those resources, all of them.
Speaker 2:it's it, because in the end, that's, that's just it is it you're just trying to stack more cards in your favor?
Speaker 1:in your favor.
Speaker 1:You know that successful that may be the two percent that you needed to get over the top to be successful yeah, and it's amazing, just from personally sitting down and reading through the regs and reading through the boring parts or the stuff that a lot of guys I don't think necessarily have ever looked at or thought about looking at, and just oh, that's interesting. Even just now, when I looked at bears, yeah, it's pretty sad so, but oh well, that's okay. Sad so, but oh well, that's okay. Well, that's probably, uh, something that tells me we need to be serious about hunting bear here because we didn't harvest too many. That means the population went up.
Speaker 2:that means we're gonna have fewer deer we're gonna have more bear problems.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it can help spur that action and stuff and that's. That's what we're here for to help spur some action. There you go, teach us some new skills. So anyway, thanks for joining us and we will see you all next week.
