The Blacktail Coach Podcast
We're here to share tips, strategies, and stories of hunting the Pacific Northwest.
Whether you're a seasoned hunter or just getting started, we'll help you turn preparation into achievement and passion into results.
So gear up and get ready, because SUCCESS IS NO ACCIDENT!
The Blacktail Coach Podcast
The Blacktail Hunting Names to Know
The legends of blacktail hunting have left an indelible mark on how we pursue these elusive deer, yet many hunters remain unfamiliar with the masters who developed the techniques we use today. From deep in the high Cascades to the dense coastal forests, these pioneering hunters have unlocked secrets that transformed blacktail success rates for those willing to learn.
Steve Isdahl's relentless 365-day approach to understanding deer patterns. Cameron Haynes's revolutionary insights about habitat edges where different environments meet. Scott Haugen's systematic breakdown of blacktail subspecies. The wisdom these hunters share transcends mere tactics - it reveals a mindset of observation, patience, and adaptation that distinguishes casual hunters from consistent trophy takers.
What's particularly fascinating is where their diverse approaches converge. Despite different hunting styles, locations, and weapon preferences, certain principles remain consistent across their teachings. Perhaps most surprisingly, none of these accomplished hunters focus on clear-cuts – the very areas many beginning hunters are taught to prioritize. Instead, they hunt thick cover, exercising extreme patience and methodical attention to detail.
Beyond the big names, we explore under-the-radar legends like Smokey Crews - a record book regular whose humility often masks his extraordinary accomplishments. His approach teaches us to read hunting literature not merely for entertainment but to extract applicable knowledge from every article, regardless of species or location. This continuous learning mindset, coupled with the patience to let hunting scenarios develop naturally rather than forcing action, demonstrates why these masters consistently succeed where others fail.
Whether you're just starting your blacktail journey or looking to elevate decades of experience, diving into the wisdom of these hunting legends provides a roadmap not just for where to hunt, but how to think about hunting. Subscribe now and join our exploration of blacktail hunting's most influential figures!
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron and I'm Dave, so we got a message on a comment from Spotify and if you ever want to leave comments, love getting comments because it's helpful, because sometimes we get an idea to do a podcast episode out of it, like this week. For some reason, though Apple, I can't see any comments. So if anybody's left any comments that I haven't responded to on Apple, yeah, for some reason their system's kind of wonky. So thank you for leaving reviews, but if you leave comments, yeah, I just can't see them. But anyway, spotify, it's real easy for me to get in there through kind of the back end and see comments and be able to reply. But somebody commented about why no mention of boyd iverson and I realized that you talk about a lot of these guys that are big names in blacktail right off air off air yeah, and it just it's not intentional, it just that's the way it happens sometimes but I was like, hey, thanks for bringing that to our attention.
Speaker 1:We've never really talked about names and for guys who you know, even if you're well-established in hunting and you've been hunting for years, you might not recognize some of these names or you're new to hunting and you want more resources because you just really want to learn and you know it's always good to get information from a bunch of different resources. So if you've taken the class and really all you know is Dave's system, it helps and I've found this because I've read some of these guys, some of their articles and stuff it helps with understanding your concepts even more. Right, right, yeah, and going back, because this is where you got a lot of these your system, just puzzle pieces that were all put together that other guys had figured out before me.
Speaker 2:I'm not a smart guy, you know. I've just taken what they've figured out and put it together, that's all.
Speaker 1:But when it's a passion, yeah, it makes you, even if you're not a smart guy. It's just you're so focused on wanting to know this particular topic that, yeah, you spend time in figuring it out.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing, when we're going to go through these names that I gave you and everything. And you're going to see or at least I began to see that when like three or four of these guys start saying the same thing, you know you really got to start listening. You know there's something to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, that's interesting because I think we've talked about we talked about that in a previous episode that like if when I was buying the equipment for recording the podcast, it's I pull up articles best you know mixer or best mics in this budget, or whatever, I read like four articles and whatever they agree on is what I go with, and so, but it's kind of that same idea is you read all these articles whatever they agree on you, kind of that's what you go with.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same concept right there. So we're going to go through these names You'll talk about, you know, do they have a book out, whether or not you can find the book anymore, because some of these guys the books are out of print, and then just kind of what, maybe what their specialty is, because some of these guys have different ways that they hunt, but what you've gleaned off of them, sure, you know. Just kind of go through that. So first one, steve Isdahl.
Speaker 2:Probably, I would say right now is one of the top three most popular blacktail hunters out there what what a guy. You know he. He's like another name on this list, nathan endicott. He does a lot of steve, does a lot of high cascade okay blacktail hunting.
Speaker 2:He's out of vancouver, british columbia. Up there up in canada he was a guide, or is a guide, for several species stone sheep and deer and whatnot. And reading his book and watching his stuff on YouTube, this guy, I'm telling you, if you're going to walk away with anything from this guy, the thing that you need to pick up mostly is just how much time he is focused on black tail. Okay, his passion comes through. And I think you know because I tell guys you know when they take my seminar, when I find that bedroom door, when I find the bedroom where they're bedding that core area, and then I find the bedroom door, I don't necessarily have to go back till two weeks before season. Yeah Right, this style of hunting that he is doing is much like, again, nathan Endicott's. These guys put a lot of hours in learning their deer herd and I mean it's not simply a hobby, it is a passion. And for the kind of bucks that these guys harvest and if you see Steve Vistal, he just harvests monsters I mean absolute giants. But he knows that deer herd. He has learned that deer herd over a series of years and put in a lot of time and miles on his feet to figure it out, miles on his feet to figure it out, you know, because he where these deer migrate because of the snow and everything that that they're going okay, yeah, that's right the location, and so they they figured out exactly where these deer want to be and how they're going to move and all this stuff and it's a 365 day a year quest for them and I I love it, you know, watching it.
Speaker 2:Steve has a book out. It's just out last year and, no offense, steve, I think you're a great hunter. You're fantastic. I learned a lot from you. I think you need to get an editor, though, you know, because some of this stuff is like there's some spots in there where you'll read the same paragraph three different times, you know, in a row, just because it's an editor thing. But if you're reading it for stories Steve has a lot of stories but look beyond his stories, look deeper into his stories and recognize what he's doing and see his train of thought with every step that he makes, and if you do that, you're going to glean a lot off this guy, because he is smart, you know, and it's just you got to look into deeper into the story than just for entertainment, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, next one, cameron Haynes.
Speaker 2:Cameron Haynes I, what can you say?
Speaker 2:I mean as far as Pacific Northwest Blacktail, you know he's the that I learned. You know the edges and where two habitats come together. Okay, he was a hundred percent right on that. A hundred percent right. That is black tail country, that is black tail travel corridors, that is, that is black tail period. And you know he grew up down in Lane County, the Mecca. He's got a DVD out on black-tailed trophy hunting and a book on trophy black-tailed tactics which I think is out of print right now, or I think somebody was saying they could pick up a copy for like $300 or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when it goes out of print and people start getting desperate, you can find it on a used copy on like amazon yeah or ebay. But yeah, you pay for it right?
Speaker 2:yeah, and it's a. It's a really good book.
Speaker 2:It's, of course, that's cameron's forte, you know writing writing and editing and all that and and it's really well put together. It's not just cameron. He's got a whole section dedicated to other hunters that are black tail hunters that are famous. One of them is a good friend of mine. He's in that book, smokey Cruz. Want to fuel this black tail addiction. I'm just getting into this and and just you know, at the beginning stages that book will will kind of seal the deal for you as far as okay, I'm in or maybe, or even watching DVDs, or yeah, I think the DVD is a little bit easier to obtain than the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, and he seems to be don't celebrity status for hunter, because I know he was on joe rogan, yeah as well, and so cam's big into the fitness.
Speaker 2:I mean he runs his marathons, he does a lot of lifting and stuff. He's getting up there in age, like the rest of us and and so he's. You know his he. You know he's known for his backcountry hunts, okay. And so a lot of guys are into that, a lot of younger guys are into that, and even us older guys are still trying to stay in shape and get another hunt out of our, a couple more hunts out of our body before it finally decides to quit. No, they look to him and he's earned it. It's very well-deserved. He's very accomplished and a very popular hunter at the time.
Speaker 1:So the next name on the list, Scott Haugen.
Speaker 2:Probably. I'd say he and Boyd Iverson are probably the godfathers of the blacktail hunting community. Okay, scott has a book and I have that book and I read it Great book. I love how he breaks blacktail down into four or five different categories, from Cascade Bucks to Coastal Bucks to Valley Bucks to Foothill Bucks, and he really does a great job of breaking it down and helping you understand the little nuances between them and at the same time still keeping in focus that they are blacktail, that a lot of the stuff they do is the same and that, even though you know, weather conditions might change their right behavior a little bit right there's.
Speaker 2:They're still very elusive and and yet still attainable if you focus on it. You know he breaks it down and more of a I won't say statistical, but he makes it for me, for a guy that has more of a process type brain. I like how Scott breaks it down, like that, you know where it's. Like this, this, this, this. You know this, plus this, plus this. I can relate to that better. Okay, and I think it's a really good book in that sense, Probably the best that I've read as far as for black tail on the market.
Speaker 1:And we've referenced, like talking about the wind and things like that. I know a lot of the information that I brought in previous episodes has been because of articles I've read of Scott Haugen's.
Speaker 2:Right, right yeah.
Speaker 1:So next one, Larry D Jones.
Speaker 2:Larry D Jones. So if Scott Haugen is the godfather, larry D Jones is his grandpa. Basically, talk about a guy that's just inspirational, not only because of his age, but I mean just if you've ever watched any of his videos, you've ever read any of his articles, it just he makes it fun, he takes it and he makes it fun. And I mean the guy is, is really, he's sharp, he really is. I mean he's come up with his own calls and stuff over the years and and still making videos. You know, and he's got one that's on cameron haynes's dvd.
Speaker 2:There's a clip of a hunt or a hunt of larry d jones in oregon where I, the guy is just phenomenal. He's still killing big bucks. It doesn't matter how. I mean the guy knows how to do it, he's got the patience, he's got the wherewithal and just the fortuitousness to say I'm going to do this and I'm going to have fun doing it. It doesn't get discouraging for him. He misses a big buck on that clip one day, two days later he kills one that's even bigger. It's just like. But the guy is just inspirational to be doing it at his age and still having the same amount of fun, if not more, throughout the entirety of his career is just really admirable, in my opinion. A lot of guys get bored of it. A lot of guys get frustrated when things don't go their way. I mean, we've done, we've done the episode. You know, when things go south, larry d jones just kind of smiles and laughs through it all yeah you know, and then at the end of the season he fills his tag.
Speaker 2:Yep, you know, and it's like, well, that's awesome. A lot of us go home and cry in our coffee and throw our bows or our weapons down in the corner. And I've had it. This is stupid, Does?
Speaker 1:he have a book.
Speaker 2:So you know, I don't know if he does. To be honest with you, I've just seen him in a lot of books. Like a lot of other people's stuff, their books. He's been around so long. He's kind of been everywhere you know. Yeah, he's in magazines all the time and whatnot, and he's had videos for decades. So he's just kind of been the cornerstone that everything kind of got built off of.
Speaker 1:Okay, next one, dwight Shrew. I almost said Dwight Shrew Little office. Yeah, dwight Shrew, we almost said Dwight Schrute, little office.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dwight Shue, we can talk about bears right now, black bears. Dwight Shue just passed here, boy, has it been four years ago, five years ago? Okay. Something like that, and I referenced him in some of my seminars about how he came out and won the Big Buck Challenge for the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1:I think we've also mentioned him in previous episodes a couple times, because he's the one who kind of got everybody thinking about, for black-tailed tree stand hunting Right right.
Speaker 2:That was his secret to success and winning that contest. But I mean, if you watch a lot of the early Larry D Jones videos on DVD and whatnot, you'll notice that those two hunted together. They were hunting partners for a long time and very knowledgeable both of them. So Larry D Jones was a recurve longbow shooter and Dwight Shue was a compound shooter. And just inspiring how he breaks everything down, going into an out-of-state hunt, going into a new territory, going into an area that he's never hunted before and watching him systematically break it down to where he's like okay, this is what I need to figure out first, and when I figure out that, then I need to figure out this, and that should lead me to this, to this, to this and ultimately to being a successful hunt, whether he fills his tag or not, just being in the game you know, so to speak, which for a lot of guys going into a new area, going and hunting a state that they've never hunted before a species that they might not have ever.
Speaker 2:Species that yeah that they've never had the opportunity. It can be. It can be very intimidating, it can. It keeps a lot ofcies that, yeah, that they've never had the opportunity. It can be very intimidating, it keeps a lot of guys from doing it. Well, I've never hunted over there. You know they hunt the west side of the Cascades. I've never hunted east side of the Cascades, you know, and I don't know where to go, so I just don't go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that was never Dwight's mindset about it I've never hunted it.
Speaker 1:Wow, what an adventure. Let's go see if we can do it. Yeah, okay, and so you mentioned recurve uh-huh and then combat what actually? Let's go back real quick. So, weapon steve isdall steve isdall.
Speaker 2:He's kind of tosses back and forth between. Sometimes he's killing them with compound bows, sometimes he's killing them with a rifle okay you know cameron haynes, he's bow cameron haynes is bow, he's archery.
Speaker 1:Yep, scott haugen kind of back and forth bow rifle, whatever's convenient okay, because I think that's important to to get some information if you're rifle hunting because, like you talk more about with the Blacktail, coach system is generally a little later in the season right. And it doesn't necessarily have to be, but it you talk about, you don't necessarily talk about calling and rattling. Right. Right, and you do, but not you don't really cover it in depth because it's not really part of this system.
Speaker 2:well, whereas these other guys it might be more of a basis of what they're doing right, right and and and so, and I don't want to take away from any of that.
Speaker 2:You know I've always said from from the beginning that my way is simply that it's just the way I do it. It's not the way. There are a bunch of other ways to do. You do this to get big black tail bucks and some of these guys I know cameron rattles, I know what shelby rattles, I know steve isdahl rattles and and whatnot. That's simply to say that this is not my forte. Yeah, you know what I mean and I'm not taking away from it in any any way, shape or form, because guys can do that are just awesome. I've rattled in a few bucks, but I'm no expert, so I don't want to talk like I am, yeah I don't want to appear to be something that I'm not.
Speaker 2:That's somebody else's forte, and and I'm hoping they'll step up to the plate and teach as many people as they can but.
Speaker 1:But it's also why learn from everybody exactly, exactly it's the, because we talk a lot about ego, but there can also be ego in teaching. Right and you have to do it my way. My way is the only way. No it's. Yeah. When you get a lot of teachers, like you said, four or five different sources and whatever they come together and talk about, but there also might be that outlier that they do.
Speaker 2:That is important where it's calling rattling things along those lines their way of doing it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So next one, Boyd Iverson.
Speaker 2:So Boyd Iverson, you know I probably don't talk about him enough and it's funny because in his day and I say in his day like he's just, you know, long gone or anything and he's not you know, but there was a time when I was first starting to get into the blacktail thing, he was the top name. Okay, you know, and I mean you know, I have his book. I don't know that it's in print anymore, but on the back cover I mean it's just a picture of him standing in the middle of all of these just giant blacktail, and read his book, loved it. It's what got me going. What I loved is the intensity that he conveys through the book on how important it is. I mean the guy doesn't, even when he's walking in the woods he does not let any branches brush up against him.
Speaker 2:He does, you know, he just you don't touch anything so he's more of a spot and stock guy he's well, he gets in there and he sits you know, and what's funny is we're talking about something that they all agree on.
Speaker 2:I don't think any of these guys hunt clear cuts okay every one of these guys and and what's funny is because everybody's been raised to do that but all these guys, that boy gets in there and he sits. He sits in the thick stuff and he waits for that big buck to make a mistake. You know what all of them do, all of them do. You know, and that's pretty much what stopped me from hunting clear cuts. But Boyd Iverson just the intensity, the dogmatic routine that this is how I have to do it to make it happen, because that big buck is so smart and I mean he conveys that in his book so well about how you have to be committed to this to be successful, not just once, but year after year after year. And I mean to see the bucks that this guy has killed in his career is just, it's inspiring, it's awesome, they're just huge. But he is so, so intense about every move that he makes. Everything is intentional. There's nothing done.
Speaker 2:That hasn't been thought through. You know okay, and there's no wasted gear. You know stuff that we take in that we think I might need this in mind. He's not doing that. Everything that he has has been well thought out. He knows why he's taking it and it's there for a reason and if it doesn't have a reason, he's not taking it. It's just extra stuff to spread more scent or extra stuff to add more weight to make him sweat more. You know it's like he doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:He's like no Fumble around through your bag and have yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, right, he is intense and I love that about him.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like no, that's where you have to be?
Speaker 2:what part of the blacktail area is he hunting? Just like we? It's all pacific, northwest, it's all you know. He's more into the thick jack for getting in, john, for I'd say more thick stuff getting in there, finding little openings but here in washington, or he just you know, I states, I don't know for certain, I don't know for certain, I don't know for certain on that.
Speaker 1:Aaron, three states, and well, four states and a different country.
Speaker 2:Up in Canada. I couldn't tell you for sure on that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I suppose at a certain point a lot of these guys have hunted California blacktail and Oregon blacktail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've done all three.
Speaker 1:And Washington and Sitka black tail and you know everything in canada. Just because it again talking about, you know your trophy is your trophy, you know to get that maybe a grand slam of black tail, yeah, from all the states that they're in yeah you know that could be. That would be an interesting trophy to to go.
Speaker 2:Yep, they need to come up with that, if they haven't already.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Maybe we'll come up with that. There you go, the Grand Slam of Blacktail. Okay, next one, smokey Cruz.
Speaker 2:So Smokey Cruz. There's a whole chapter dedicated to him in Cameron Haynes' book and Smokey is a good friend of mine and I've learned so much from him. He's not published outside of being in that book. He's not, he hasn't been on any shows or anything like that, but what an incredible man, you know. He and his wife are both just and his son. Yeah, they're just incredible people. His son's also in the book, okay.
Speaker 2:He's in his book and everything Smoke. He's in the record books countless times for everything Elk, bear, deer, goat, moose, caribou, I mean. The guy is just this phenomenal hunter and I've been blessed with the opportunity to spend time with him, to be a good friend to him and Annette, and I just love him to death as a good friend to him and Annette, and I just love him to death. And the thing that I've learned from Smoke is there's several things, but the two things that stand out to me number one were Smoke always. He always had, you know, hunting magazines laying around and everything and I just thought, you know, like everybody else, I would get those and I would read those for entertainment, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm reading it just for the articles. Yeah, for the stories, and they are. They are very entertaining and they're exciting and they add to the adventure and everything. But something that Smokey taught me early on is that there's not a magazine that he has that he hasn't read cover to cover. And you know this about me, aaron, that when I I get a magazine, that's exactly what I do now, because smoky taught me that, regardless of the species, regardless of the location, regardless of whatever it is that's going on, and that there's always something that you can glean from that hunt. There's always something that you can pick up, whether it's a mental aspect or a hunting technique or a little trick here and there, whatever that they do, there's always something that you can walk away, that is a positive to your hunting career, that you can pull from every one of those.
Speaker 2:And when I started reading articles not solely for entertainment, but with the idea that there's something I could pull out of that, I went from what I would call a sub average hunter to somebody who started, you know, killing big record book bucks. I started killing more bulls, I started killing more bears. Yeah, it just became. Things started making more sense and it opened up a whole new world to me in that aspect. But yeah, so that was one of the things that I took away from being with him and everything. And then the other thing that I've watched Smokey. Over the years I've had the privilege and the pleasure to hunt with him and to go out in the woods and be with him and see how he does things, and there's just so much that's going on and as a young kid it's really hard to do this. But I look at my boy and I think he's got so much more patience than I did.
Speaker 2:Smokey has made me slow down and really let things develop instead of trying to make something happen, which I think with spot and stalking, a lot of guys do that and I think that one of the bad habits that you get, that you can develop through spot and stalk, is that you always have that curiosity of what's on the other over the hill yeah, what's over around the bend and whatnot, and you push yourself and you go, go, go and some styles of hunting that's, that's good.
Speaker 2:But sometimes that can be a con, in the sense that you're trying to force something instead of letting something develop and maybe by pushing it you blew a chance at something that you could and and so smoky just really told me to. You know, taught me how to slow down and and really kind of measure my movements, measure my decisions, measure my whole hunt plan.
Speaker 1:I guess I'm trying to say, well, the concept of a hunt plan and, yeah, what to do, when I know that's where you got the idea learned the concepts of baiting we can't bait anymore but the benefits of it, because I remember you were telling me a story of going whitetail hunting with him and new concept to you yeah, never thought of baiting yeah, never done that and and the pros and cons to it you know.
Speaker 2:And and to clarify guys, so baiting doesn't make big bucks daylight. No, contrary to what everybody wants to say. And if anybody's ever bear hunted or whatnot, the food is out there at night. They don't have to come in the daytime and they know that, you know. But there's, there's, there's benefits to having a healthy deer herd and and doing all of that and selective harvest and everything like that, and so, but doing that, being able to watch species that I'm hunting, whether it's bear, elk, deer, whatever it is, watching their habits and how they interact, and when you learn your prey, it's much easier to find your prey if that makes any sense, yeah yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So, and I've had the chance to meet Smokey and Annette, his wife several times, and his son, and yeah, what you say, just the nicest people and honestly, I had no idea, because I had met him probably four or five times before I realized that he is as accomplished of a hunter as he is, because it's not like he's not leading with his stories. No no, he's just one of those. He just talks to you and same with annette and she's got some incredible stories oh yeah, they're both.
Speaker 2:All three of them are in the record books countless times and they're just the nicest, sweetest people you could ever meet, and yeah yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:it's like meeting somebody and all of a sudden you find out like this incredible skill they have. Wait, what yeah?
Speaker 2:And that's another thing. I think that a lot of people don't recognize what is really sitting in front of them. And.
Speaker 1:I say that in the sense that you know.
Speaker 2:So we would shoot archery. We belonged to the same archery club and we would shoot league and stuff. And smokey would come in there and guys would ask questions and they never. You know, like you said, they never knew where he was. You know, as far as in the hunting world and it's like if they knew boy, they would be just sitting there just taking it all in everything. Anything that he says you just, I mean, if he tells you it's gonna rain, start carrying, start carrying an umbrella.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, if it has to do with hunting.
Speaker 2:I mean, the guy is just that good and it's just stuff like that. Guys like that are just untapped. You know, Smoke, he's the kind of guy that wants to teach. He enjoys teaching.
Speaker 1:But everybody today is in such a hurry, or they look at him because of his age and they think, well, you know, just an old timer doesn't know, and it's like, no, you don't understand who you're talking to. You know, and I've literally seen that happen, because I've seen a couple of times younger guys trying to not necessarily one-up him, but they come in with their stories Right and they lead with their stories not realizing, and he's not the type of guy and they lead with their stories not realizing, and he's not the type of guy. He will congratulate them and I think that's a lot where you've learned. That is just good for you. I'm glad you got that buck, I'm glad you got that buck, because that's the type of guy he is.
Speaker 1:But it's when I realized who he was and seeing these conversations later on, I'm laughing in my head. It's like, yeah, he's been there, done that, but he's a lot of humility and just good for you Both of them, both of them.
Speaker 2:And what's funny is, I think what took it to the next level with me, with Smokey, is when I finally realized how big a name he really is. We were at a sportsman show and he's good friends with Glenberry. Glenberry comes and stays at his house when he comes over and he does the Portland Sportsman Show and Glenberry's a big name in elk hunting and I thought, well, they're friends, that's cool and everything. Well, we're at the sportsman, we're walking around and here's Jim Horn and I'm thinking that's jim horn. He's. He's on the truth primos, the truth big bulls, you know, and I've seen him on those videos, those dvds, countless times and he's got a whole series of backpacks that with the signature jim horn series, you know, and I'm like that's jim horn. Jim walks up, he's a Smokey and he just shakes hands and they start hugging and they just start shooting the breeze, yeah, yeah and.
Speaker 2:I'm like wow, he really is connected, he really is well-known. He was known as Mr Roosevelt for decades in the record books because he had killed so many record book Roosevelts and people don't recognize that. They don't know that a book Roosevelt's and people don't recognize that they don't know that. And it's like what an incredible resource If, if someone was just to take the time and sit down with him. Smokey is a storyteller and, like I said, he wants to teach.
Speaker 2:We actually need to get Smokey on the podcast and just go to his place and sit down and we would have to make that podcast about three hours long. Cause he's going's gonna rabbit trail down every you know, but it's gonna be enjoyable. You're gonna. You're gonna walk away going. Wow, that was some time well spent. I'm really glad that I sat down with him, you know we got it.
Speaker 1:Okay, we got to get that one on the book. So because, like you said, he's, he's got a chapter in cameron haynes' book but he's not a writer himself or anything. So there's not a lot of information, it's personal information that you've gleaned from him. But still, if you see or hear that name, your ear should perk up.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, he's kind of the legend. That's just kind of.
Speaker 1:Under the radar legend Exactly, exactly. Okay, that's just kind of Under the radar legend Exactly, exactly. Okay, so we could probably talk about Smokey for a while, but we're going to move along to Boyd Shelby Jr.
Speaker 2:So that's who. I actually met him through Smokey and he's got a DVD. He used to be at the Swartzman shows. He's up north when I say up north I'm talking up Seattle north area, up that way and basically was guiding for black tail. He had two dvds and both dvds were very, very informative. They weren't like production quality kind of stuff, but very well done in the sense that the way it was all laid out and and that you were looking at his technique and you were. Again, if you're not watching it for entertainment purposes solely, but you're watching it to learn stuff, you're going to walk away from there going. Okay, boyd uses sense a lot and that's where I kind of started my journey down that, that that trail there, and kind of took what he was doing and added my own little twist and then learn some things along the way. But boy, very successful. I don't know if he's doing it anymore.
Speaker 1:Very nice guy and really good blacktail hunter really good okay, and I think this is probably true a lot with blacktail, as we've heard from guys. It's like there's just no information out there and as soon as you guys put out the podcast, like, guys were super excited because here's some fairly consistent black tail information. So it's self. You know, thinking about his videos self-produced. Well, it's hard when you know you don't have editing skills and all of that to produce like really high quality TV show Buck Ventures.
Speaker 2:Right, and you're competing against all this other whitetail hunters, which all the lower 50 have whitetail, but there's just the three on the West Coast that have blacktail, and it's just a third of those states. So it's like, well, where are you going to go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we can take what we can get. There, you go Exactly Okay no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Put some hats hats yeah but uh boy, he makes like I was saying, he and steve isdall do that same high cascade. Nathan is in great shape. Yeah, you know. He mentioned in his seminar that that on average, on a good day, he'll put 19 miles on his feet, you know I think it was like 12 or 13 average 19 is a long day. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, and I'm it's just a lot of walking. That's a lot of walk and it's not flat walking either no.
Speaker 2:And so Nathan's in great shape and what he does he is exceptionally good at and makes it look really, really fun. I wish I could do that. I'm going to try. As many you know, I have Lyme's disease and and it limits me on what I can and can't do. But boy, just sitting there and listening to his hunts and everything like that, it's just fun. It's just fun. The guy an incredible videographer, photographer, just you know, he is probably the whole package as far as what you want, as far as being able not only to live the hunt but to remember the hunt and to be able to come back and stir those memories with footage.
Speaker 1:Well, I remember sitting in his seminar and what he's looking for. Even though he's doing the high cascade stuff, he's still looking for a lot of the same type of habitat attributes that you are. Yeah, and it's interesting. It's true for blacktail. You know, certain things are just true for blacktail weather and you mentioned, I think with Scott Haugen, same thing Valley bucks, coastal bucks. There are certain attributes that are true for all of them, right?
Speaker 2:And it's funny because everybody wants to make their deer the exception. Yeah, and the reality is, is it's? They're really not, you know. And when you stop thinking like that and start thinking like it's just an ungulate, you know it's doing things out of survival, it's not emotion, you know, and it makes it a little bit easier to understand them and whatnot. But again, like Steve Isdall, Nathan spends a lot of time up there. He knows his deer, herd you know he knows his deer herd.
Speaker 2:You know he knows the migration patterns. He knows the pockets where they want to hang. He's found their bedrooms, you know. And when he goes and he does his hikes and whatnot, he's got a plan. You know, he's got a route that he wants to take. It may not be the same exact trail, but it's going to be the same route that he takes to accomplish what he's desiring to accomplish.
Speaker 1:And he has a lot of stuff on YouTube, tons of stuff and I would say that's mostly where his content is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say both he and Steve Isdall yeah, okay, youtube.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, they're both on there a lot, and that's you know, I started typing in some of these names into YouTube and you get pulled up video and you might even be able to find clips of old DVDs that guys have just uploaded to YouTube. Now, whether or not you can actually do that legally, you know, that might be a different story and stuff. But one of the things I remember from going to Nathan's seminar down in Albany is not only oh, okay, so he's looking for some of the same habitat attributes that we are but he was talking about hunting different states, and so he shared some stories about Sitka but also going into California, which perked the interest of you and DJ and Zach about going. So now you're going down to Californiaifornia because it's actually for an out-of-state hunt.
Speaker 1:it's one of the more affordable hunts to do and they have a really long blacktail season yeah yeah, so very interesting that you know, because you would think california would be completely anti-hunter just because of the politics and you know a lot of stuff like that goes hand in hand. But yeah, it seemed to be pretty open to you know, having out-of-state hunters. So if you're looking for, but and I think a lot of them down there big racks, small bodies and I think your brother's kind of mentioned that, even though he's Southern Oregon, yeah, he's just right across the border, but right across the border, but yeah, big bot, big, big rack, small body. So they were saying you know huge rack, but it was a 90 pound, 90 pound deer, but last one on our list. Start looking up all these guys you know, start gleaning information. We hope we gave you a good list, you know. I know there's a lot of names that you might be. Well, what about this guy? And so these are just the names off the top of that your head that you came up with.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's more than just these guys too. Yeah there's.
Speaker 1:There's other guys out there and we didn't mention guys like randy newberg or fred eichler, who have all probably hunted blacktail at some point, but not aren't necessarily blacktail guys so right, and I think that's what we were trying to stick with here. So blacktail guys. So anyway, thanks for joining us and we'll talk to you next week.
