The Blacktail Coach Podcast
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The Blacktail Coach Podcast
Bear Hunting with Special Guest Heather Aldrich
The North American black bear remains one of our continent's most fascinating and misunderstood predators. In this revealing conversation with expert bear hunter Heather Aldrich, we explore the complex world of bear hunting, conservation ethics, and the science behind sustainable wildlife management.
Heather shares her remarkable journey from hesitant hunting companion to passionate predator specialist, describing the moment she realized bears would become her lifelong fascination. After an "epic failure" on her first Washington fall bear hunt, she committed to understanding bear behavior through scientific research rather than hearsay or online forums. This analytical approach transformed her hunting strategy from random encounters to targeted pursuits.
The conversation takes a serious turn as we examine the controversial 2022 ban on spring bear hunting in Washington State. Heather expertly dismantles common misconceptions about bear populations and hunting impacts, explaining how emotional arguments often override scientific evidence in wildlife management decisions. With approximately 27,000 black bears in Washington and only 1,800 harvested annually, she makes a compelling case for sustainable hunting as a conservation tool.
"I am not trying to eradicate the bear from the landscape. I am a conservationist," Heather emphasizes, highlighting the important distinction between conservation (sustainable use) and preservation (hands-off approach). Her explanation of carrying capacity and habitat-specific management needs provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of wildlife ecology rarely found in mainstream discussions.
For both experienced hunters and those curious about wildlife management, this episode offers valuable insights into predator behavior, conservation organization work, and the importance of hunter advocacy. Heather's passion for bears shines through as she describes not just the hunt, but her deep appreciation for these magnificent animals and their role in our ecosystems.
Whether you're planning your first bear hunt or simply want to understand the scientific principles behind wildlife management, this conversation provides the perfect foundation. Join us next week as we continue our four-part series with Heather, diving deeper into bear hunting techniques and strategy.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach podcast. I'm Aaron and this week we have Heather Aldrich and we are going to talk about bear hunting. So this will probably turn into multi-weeks of talking about bear hunting, because you know a lot about bear hunting and I'm long-winded. And we want to encourage bear hunting. You know, especially with our system, it tends to bring in bears. Probably not as much now because of the laws against baiting, but there's still bear in the area that we're hunting and bear they're delicious, so you know very, very much so and you can have a rug, oh, yeah or you know, mount or decorations for the home anyway.
Speaker 1:So why don't you start off? Tell, tell us, like your personal hunting history. What got you into hunting? Where did you get your start?
Speaker 2:So I grew up with five brothers and my family fished, but they were not hunters by any stretch of the imagination. My mom gardened and so that love of the outdoors was kind of started there. I married my husband and he owned Bravo Wall Tents and so I got my beginning into the outdoor world. And his big deal was, even if you don't want to hunt, if you just go with me. And I said, sure, I love to be outside, you know, let's go do it. And at that time I wasn't sure that I was going to be able to go out and harvest an animal. That was a big choice for me and I got into it.
Speaker 2:And very first time he took me on was an elk hunt. And they kept going by all these elk, and I thought, man, I don't get it, I don't understand the rules. And finally I asked him I said what is wrong with the elk? And he said what do you mean? I said well, like that bull we just passed, is there some reason why you didn't want him? Like I don't know what the rules are? And he said elk, yeah, you didn't say anything. Well, I thought you saw him. He goes for the love of God, woman.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So he immediately says okay, that's it, you have to have a tag. So we had been on the horses riding by all these animals. I had no idea and the guys hadn't seen them. They're just, they're going to their end goal, and I learned really quick that we hunted very differently, and so that was my start and from there he started taking me coyote hunting and that was the beginning of me becoming a predator hunter.
Speaker 2:Okay, everybody finds their niche I think, yeah, and, and what it is that they love? And that sparked something in me that it was just so much fun. You sat there and you called, and the coyotes come running in and then you bark at them and get them to stop, and and it was just fascinating to me. Plus Plus, they had claws and canines and I was like those are I like them.
Speaker 1:I like the sharp things.
Speaker 2:I like the sharp things so much to his chagrin, you know, because he would prefer. When you own a tent company, it looks the best in your marketing photos if you have this massive elk in front of the tent, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah so here, his wife goes out to the field predators, and so I'm like no, no, no, sir, we're going to have massive bears in front of the tent. That's going to be our marketing photo. So that was kind of the beginning of me getting into this. And then many years ago at the Puyallup show we met an outfitter who has since become family to us and he had just bought his guide territory and he wanted some tents and we had never been to Canada and he invited us up. He says let's do a swap. I'll take you spring bear hunting and we'll swap for tents. And I said, deal.
Speaker 2:And so John and I went up there and I've never seen so many bears in my life. They were like fleas. You could not go anywhere in BC and not see a bear. So I said, oh my goodness, this animal's phenomenal. I just fell in love with them. And of course we both got our bears and we came back and so I told my husband I says this is going to be the animal that I'm going to study and learn about. I really like this. And so it went from just predator in generality to bears and specifics. You know I still hunt all those things, you know when forced I'll go out and deer hunt.
Speaker 2:But I got a bear tag in my pocket, you know so. But that's just where it all began. And so I came home from Canada and I told my husband I said let's go bear hunting this fall. And he said well, as long as it doesn't interfere with my elk hunt. So we set the tent up, we did all the things and I have never been so epically frustrated in all my life.
Speaker 2:Everywhere I went I did all the things because my father is a geochemist and so he taught that scientific method to us right. So I had paid very careful attention to the guide and where he was taking us that spring and how we looked for animals and where we were looking for these bear and why they did what they did. And then I tried to take that information and put it into the fall and I epically failed, completely epically failed, and I had to realize really quickly that I knew nothing about bears, like not just like there's diddly squat and then there's like a lower level below diddly squat. That was me. So I came back to the camp and I told my husband I said do bears exist in the state of Washington? Because I don't think they do and it gets some big lie. You know, I said they're hanging out with Bigfoot somewhere, like I can't find them.
Speaker 2:And so I decided right then, and there I am going to research the crap out of this, I'm going to learn what makes these animals tick and I'm going to understand them. And so, like I said, with my father and his background and bringing that love of science and just realizing I needed to have a starting point. And that's not always like going on Facebook or a social media site or reading a forum or whatever. Although those things are helpful, I prefer reading the biology papers and researching as best I can how that animal is using the habitat. Why are they doing what they're doing? You know all the things and then you can put all that math together and get to the end of success in the field. It changes it from an incidental take.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right To a on-purpose, targeted approach to getting that specific bear. So some people hunt generalities. Right, I'm hunting bear population. I like to target a specific bear and then dog his butt until I get him. That's just how I play.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I know from listening to the way Dave has hunted in the past that bears not targeting bears, but he's hunted bears quite often. But a lot of it came from like in Eastern Oregon. They would go out elk hunting and harvest an elk and they'd come back a day or two later and sit on the remains of that harvested elk because after you've gutted it out and stuff and wait for a bear to show up and typically a bear often would show up and he would get a bear. And that was the approach. And you know if it's not necessarily a focus, that would be a good. I imagine that would be, for if you're not going to put a whole lot of effort into it. But that also requires you getting an elk or a deer during a season where you can actually also shoot a bear as well. Now, before we move on, if someone wanted to study if there were like are there names of people, previous hunters, who've like written books or oh sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are some of the names, if people want to start doing their own research.
Speaker 2:So there's some really good books out. I mean, well, there's a tremendous amount of books out on black bear hunting. Some of my favorites are going to be the Education of a Bear Hunter, and then also Douglas Bowes wrote a book Actually he has a couple out and he is the president of our Washington chapter of American Bear Foundation. So that's a good resource to hit up and to read if you like to read books I love to read, that's what we grew up doing, reading all the time. So those are great tools. And then there's specific organizations that you can touch base with that kind of help a little bit with that, like the American Bear Foundation. Oh, howl for Wildlife is good. They have some information on. There is good, they have some information on there. I do caution people to be careful, not with those organizations but when you start researching bears, there's a lot of nonsense online.
Speaker 2:There's a tremendous amount that is put out by the anti-hunting community. So there'll be misinformation, misdirection, et cetera. Even if you take the most basic, basic math, which is the conservation status, conservation status of the American black bear is at least concern. So when you see things where they're endangered and you say, well, no one believes that I have been at a game commission meeting where that word was used several times by people that were talking to the commission you know that the black bears were endangered. So we need to make sure we're educated.
Speaker 1:And I've heard that recently because I know that they've worked towards taking away spring bear here in Washington.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And somebody had floated some idea that the population of black bear was dwindling here in Washington and it's like, well, you can't run hounds on them anymore and you can't bait. You haven't been able to bait for years, right, which discourages some people from just hunting them all together.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Well, it seems like the numbers would go up if there's nothing else. So it sounded yeah, like you're saying, like there's some people have an agenda because they don't like hunting, don't like hunters and it comes from that perspective.
Speaker 2:I think, if they really listen, when we start talking about the North American conservation model, the whole idea behind that is to allow for consumptive use. So consumptive use means I go out and I take a bear. That does not make me an eradication specialist. I'm not trying to eradicate the bear from the landscape. I am a conservationist. I want to conserve the resource so that, you know, 100 years from now, my great-grandchildren can go out and harvest a bear.
Speaker 2:I'm not a preservationist. I do not believe in, you know, an untouched wilderness, meaning we had that spoken at the commission too, where people were saying you know that the animals can regulate themselves, they do not need any kind of interference from mankind. And I'm just cringing because if they really followed that logic and what that looks like, it's quite cruel to what would happen in nature when the population is. Therefore, you look at it, it's going to overpopulate and there's not going to be enough food sources, so you're going to see a drastic drop. And then you know the whole idea of preservation is it doesn't work. It doesn't work in reality.
Speaker 1:And I think we've seen that, or it's been a little more, maybe a little more pronounced from what I've seen with the wolves and reintroducing wolves and the effect that those have on elk populations, deer populations, have on elk populations, deer populations. So again, knowing people who've gone to Idaho and Eastern Oregon that they just don't see, they don't see any nearly the elk that they used to.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's one of those keeping everything in check, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And that is the whole point of the North American model. It's not to hunt one species to eradication, it's to manage the landscape for all the species. You know not this perfect world coexistence, right Like it's predator and prey.
Speaker 2:There's going to be conflict there. But let's talk about carrying capacity for just one second, because this is one of my soapboxes. So we're there. If I look at a piece of land and I'm going to put a box on it, let's say it's a mile by a mile. When you look at that topography it can only support so many of a specific species. You know, let's say there's a moth, well, there's only so many moths that can live there and before they overpopulate. And the same is true of our deer, our elk, our bears.
Speaker 2:And that number, that number, that carrying capacity is not universal. So when I look at that one by one, it can't be. Let's say we want to manage for 10% mortality for bears in this place. Well, that may not work for others because the carrying capacity is more limited based on the food sources. Let's say how much human population is actually in there? All of these things factor. So we need to be very careful when we're setting these rules and regulations and I've talked to many people about this that we stay educated and we understand universal numbers sound good and they look good on a page, but they don't apply across the entire United States. What's good?
Speaker 2:for one section or one unit is not necessarily good for this unit over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and that makes sense. When you consider Washington, there's western Washington and you know northeast Washington. While lots of forest and everything, it's still very different habitat with undergrowth and food sources, like you say, or Columbia Basin. Yeah it's, we have four different, four or five different habitats just in Washington State alone. So yeah, managing them differently. So you're based here in Washington, yes sir, and of course you hunt Washington, I assume, for bear.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:Just the easiest. It's one of the places, yes, and least expensive way to go. What other states do you regularly hunt bear? Or I mean or provinces and or provinces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I haven't been to BC for quite a while. We should probably go back there. It's just so much fun. But so been there many times Idaho, oregon, I have a couple other states on the list. It's just a time issue and of course we have to fit in the husband's elk hunts, I don't know, you know, apparently. So we try to split it up and be fair to each other in the field, because we both have different passions and I support him 100% in what he likes to do and he supports me 100% in what I like to do. So just being fair, but many, many states and the rules are different for each one.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't care what state they're in Doesn't matter to me. It's just another chess board. I'll call it that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to learn.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to learn how to get a bear out of that particular area.
Speaker 1:Okay, and we will get into how you approach your whole hunt and all of that. But I would think spring bear offers some opportunities, so then you don't conflict. So unless your husband was a turkey hunter, you're pretty much okay there.
Speaker 2:Correct. So there's usually you know. Of course we've lost our spring bear hunt here in Washington state and there's many of us trying to get that back. It's a sad, sad loss for the state in general. There are other states that still allow for the spring hunt and I love spring bear hunting. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:Why is?
Speaker 2:that there are so many things happening in the spring. I mean, you're going to see baby grouse. I filmed some here this spring. They just cracked me up. They're little tiny fluff butts running around. I filmed some here this spring. They just cracked me up, their little tiny fluff butts running around and you know the baby calves dropping. So there's elk running every which way and you'll know, because there'll be a single cow all by herself and I'll start watching around her to see the baby. And oh, there it is. I just absolutely love seeing all the life coming out, and the animals are different. They're not as pressured, so I feel like they act more like themselves.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So you see a lot more of the game out than you do in the fall, when the season's open and they're all hiding under a bush. So it's just a beautiful time of year. I like the weather because it's crazy. You don't know what you're going to get. I've had snowstorms, I've had high wind, we've had thunder and lightning, we've had 90 degree days. It's one of those things of I'm not a super adaptable person by nature. I am not Like if there's a furrow, I'm in the center of it. I'm like touching the walls going yeah, right, centerline, the whole way, and the walls going, yeah, right, centerline, the whole way, and you cannot do that and be a bear hunter. So it's. It's been a good growth experience for me to learn how to adapt.
Speaker 1:I would think you can't do that and be a hunter.
Speaker 2:Right, so it's pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've, you know, and we talk about this all the time, you just have to pivot. Yeah, there's all kinds of things that that happen. We actually did an episode called when Things Go South, or when your Season Goes South and you lose access, or a cougar. In fact, I was pointing out some of Dave's son, dj, so he got his buck last year. Well, he had to go after that one. He had to find that one because they were watching a week before season started and his target buck, which was a really nice four by four, was walking by on camera with its lower jaw hanging straight down. So Cougar got a hold of it and he's like well, it might be there. No, it's gone.
Speaker 2:That's a sad one.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's all kinds of reasons that you have to be able to pivot. But when you increase your knowledge base you're pivoting. But you're pivoting to a familiar skills. You know, oh, this isn't going to work in this situation, so, but I know this other skill will work for this particular situation. Or you know habitat or things like that. So, yeah, it's, we definitely try to drill that into anybody we work with and you know we try to teach. Just, broaden that skill set, you know. Broaden your knowledge so that you know what a smart pivot is, what a smart move is to the next thing, because this thing isn't going to work or doesn't work or you know, for whatever happens. So, going back, let's talk about and you know you can go back on your soapbox if you need to but why was spring bear taken away in Washington? What was the, what was the thought process there?
Speaker 2:Oh boy, I'm going to try to find a way to answer this without getting too fired up.
Speaker 1:And I had a feeling I might stir some things up, but I was willing to take the risk.
Speaker 2:Did we just step on a hormone? Yeah, so there is a lot of lack of science, there's a lot of emotional responses, there's a lack of education yeah, that one really irritates me. On what bears are, what the carrying capacity is in Washington State per unit. And so people get this idea of, like I said earlier mentioned, that they believe they're endangered. So you know, that's the first thing. And then there's this emotional response of not only do we believe they're endangered, which is nonsense, but you know, these evil hunters are going out and they're shooting sows with cubs. That is not what's happening. So there's not a hunter one that I deal with, and remember, I'm in an outdoor industry.
Speaker 2:I build wall tents for a living. I deal with hunters every day of my life. They are not categorically, are not going out and targeting sows with cubs what they're seeing in the spring what they're seeing is the natural disbursement.
Speaker 2:So this is the time of year where the cubs are leaving mama, the older cubs, not the brand new ones. So you're going to start to see those smaller size bears running around, running through a clear cut, because they don't know any better, they just haven't learned. And so you see more of them and the uneducated mind says, oh my gosh, a hunter's killed their parents, right they?
Speaker 2:killed mom and dad. They took them. They just didn't even think, you know. First off, we shouldn't anthropomorphize animals you know, I'm just saying you know. The second thing is that if they were educated they would understand. These bears are going through a natural process of dispersion and they are to be expected to be seen in the spring, away from their mother. And again, I'm not talking about some little teeny tiny cub here, the normal long yearlings I'd call them, you know. And mom's had enough of them I get the point.
Speaker 2:You know, at some point you're like kid get out.
Speaker 1:You've graduated high school, time to move out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you need to get your own groceries.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that's what they're seeing. So that was one of the arguments made against the spring hunt was the take of sows, and you know the Bear Foundation and others were talking about that and it's like well, let's follow that logic out in the fall. So if it's not okay to take them in the spring, why would it be okay to take them in the fall? It's not. So there's no difference in the people in the landscape is my point. There's the same hunter whether he's out in the spring or he's out in the fall hunting the bears.
Speaker 2:It made no logical sense to me to say we should remove a spring hunt because of you know, we could decimate the population. Well, we've had a spring hunt for a long time and there's still a lot of bears in the state. So your argument is mute. So that was a big portion of it. There is a lot of stuff coming out right now. I mean, if you watch anything from like Sportsman's Alliance et cetera, they're putting some emails out that came from the commission that they're not the greatest things to have out there. I would be embarrassed, quite honestly, to have something like that.
Speaker 1:Just bad information.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm going to avoid some of that. I think there's going to be a lot of things coming up. There's a lot of stuff being said, said. I would like to read some more of it before I make an official opinion on it yeah but there's a lot of things that are just not good.
Speaker 2:That happened with the game commission. In that whole there's a debacle. It was really what it was, despite what their own biologists were saying and the choices that they made. So there's a lot of bitterness. There's still a lot of anger in when we talk about doing the bear seminars at the shows.
Speaker 2:I talked to the management and I said let's not talk about spring in this particular venue because there's still a lot of anger among the hunters about it, and it's rightfully so, when we are not listened to, when the biologists are saying here's a sustainable take, and they're saying no, no, no, it's yeah, the whole thing was not good.
Speaker 1:So what do they estimate that the? And we fall back on Washington. We're located in Washington and I know other states manage everything differently, some of them probably much better. Washington has not managed certain aspects of fishing game well, but what do they estimate the population in Washington to be a black bear.
Speaker 2:So the current estimate that I read was about 27,000 bears. You know I always take all those numbers with a grain of salt. They cannot be everywhere at every time when they're trying to do a population study. I love reading population studies, so they're really, really interesting to me. So if you, let's say, we put up a camera trap and we want to start counting bears, so I put up a camera and you have 10 black bears, go by the camera. Well, did you have 10 black bears? That are individuals, or did you have?
Speaker 1:one black bear that went by 10 times right.
Speaker 2:So the biologists, being smart, said, oh, we got to come up with something better. So they put up these wire traps and basically they just grab a little tough to hair as the bear goes by. So now we can prove right by the DNA coming off, that that we did in fact have 10 individuals going by, and along with that is you establish a genetic base. So you're like okay, we know that we have a great population based on the diversity in the genetic material. So you know you don't have a bunch of inbreeding, etc. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So again it's a science. I absolutely love that where you can prove and I, because I do hunt other states that have grizzly bear populations. I like talking to the conservation officers about such things and they're always funny because at first they're like you know, they're careful to answer questions because they don't want to let you know where the grizzly bears are. And I'm like look, I'm not targeting your grizzly bear.
Speaker 2:You know, we're not that kind of people. I am genuinely trying to understand how they move through the environment so I can understand how they affect the black bear movements, which are something that I'm hunting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And understand why they're doing what they're doing and how these species interact. So one of the things that they were doing in the one state they had collared 30 different grizzlies and they took genetic sampling from each one and of course, the ultimate goal is eventually this is, I know, a hot button issue, but it's to open up the grizzly bear hunt again. Hot button issue, but it's to open up the grizzly bear hunt again and to prove that they have enough diversity in that genetic sampling that they can sustainably take X amount of number of bears from the population and it won't hurt the population at all.
Speaker 1:And would this be lower 48? Yeah, okay, is there any? There's no states that allow grizzly hunting in the lower 48? Not yet, okay.
Speaker 2:There was a brief time where, like Idaho had opened it up they actually did. Then it was resident only and one guy got the tag and then the courts of course, shut that hunt down and it hasn't come back on the table yet, but it's something we're definitely watching and again it's a hot button issue, like the wolf thing. But I am not against grizzly bear hunting. I think it needs to be very carefully managed and watched over like any other animal on the planet. Again, I'm not for eradication, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, I know that there was a proposal, or at least I've heard a proposal, about introducing grizzlies back into Washington, and I know occasionally they'll dip down in the Northern Cascades from.
Speaker 2:Canada. They'll come down Sure. They don't need visas and passports and they don't recognize boundaries.
Speaker 1:So yes, absolutely, they just show up when they feel like it because they're a grizzly bear Kind of can do what they want. Fact the only concern I know for introducing grizzlies that I've heard is like so friends who might go elk hunting where there are grizzlies or deer hunting are always head on a swivel. They're just very nervous.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know potentially?
Speaker 2:And I get that. So I just got back not too long ago from a spring hunt in Idaho and where I'm at there's a good grizzly population. So I do travel differently through the environment. I do hunt differently in those areas. I'm way more cautious in how my setups are done and where I would take a stand, for example, or let's say where you'd put a tree stand or a blind, etc. They definitely affect how I move through the environment and that's where my question mark came for how they affect the black bears and how they move through the environment and there needs to be some studies done on how grizzly bears affect the black bear population.
Speaker 2:I think it's really important because when we're reintroducing a species right, we're going to take this species and we're putting back on the area Great. So how is that species going to affect the rest of them?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And how do they all play together? That's a very important question that has not been answered.
Speaker 1:Well, and it was interesting seeing some stuff online regarding wolves and you know people well, they have the right to be here, but I just kind of had gotten curious. So at the time Idaho had 1,541 wolves that they knew of. So I just started doing the research how many elk will 1,541?
Speaker 1:wolves consume 27,000 a year, and that's not including anything else. How many elk will 1,541 wolves consume 27,000 a year, and that's not including anything else. And I'm like, okay, can the population of elk replenish itself Fast enough? No and no, no, it can't. So then it causes, yeah, things to dwindle. So, thinking about so 27,000 black bear going back to black bear now and I think I just pulled up those numbers and there were about 1,800 harvested in the whole state for last year, because we were talking about how to look that information up yeah, so is 1,800 out of 27,. Is that a sustainable, what would be a sustainable harvest rate for 27,000 bear?
Speaker 2:See that's what's interesting when you start talking about the harvest rates, so you have to factor in not just harvest rates. We want to look at total mortality.
Speaker 1:Yes, the total mortality.
Speaker 2:So you have the ones that hunters take, you have the ones that are damage removals, you have the accidents the bear that gets hit on the road.
Speaker 2:That stuff happens, then you have predation. You know the bear that gets hit on the road. That stuff happens, then you have predation, right. So bear on bear, grizzly bear on black bear, I mean wolf on black bear, cougar on black bear there's a lot of things that'll take those cubs. And then you know grizzlies and full-grown bears. It's not a problem there. There's goodness sakes. You can see it online all the time. There'll be a short video of some grizzly bear hauling a big old black bear up the hill right, he's killed and he's going to eat him. So all of those things factor in and, I think, need to be taken in the totality when we start setting our harvest quotas. We'll call it. One of those things that they touched on at the game commission meeting I was on or at, was the amount of sow mortality. So that's our future bears right our recruitment.
Speaker 2:So if we take too many sows out then we're not going to have a sustainable hunt because there won't be recruitment in the future. So I absolutely agree with those being set. I think that's proper management. But what that looks like goes back to that carrying capacity that I touched on earlier. That number can't be universal, it just can't. What is appropriate for an east side bear population mortality rate will not be appropriate for a coastal bear range or western Washington. Those numbers are significantly different and more research, I think, should be done. But is the sustainable number that we took last? Yeah, absolutely, you know, even if you look at, let's say this is ridiculous. But let's say 50% of that number of 27,000 is sows.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's just cap it at 50% and let's cut it down again. Let's say 25% of those are actually of breeding age, because you figure a three to a five-year-old bear somewhere in there in the state of Washington is when they're going to start breeding. And then you figure, you know two to five cubs. Five is extreme, I have seen it, her paws were full right, but two is average. And then you figure in mortality rate on those bears. You're nowhere near, nowhere near removing 1,800, causing a problem. I mean you just the math doesn't support the anti-hunters of. Oh, we're going to decimate the population, not even close.
Speaker 1:Now, do you know or remember when there was a spring bear hunt? Oh yeah, you know or remember when there was a spring bear hunt? Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I took a beautiful bear. The last time I drew a spring bear tag it was for 49 degrees north and had a wonderful hunt and took a really nice, really nice bear. And that's very sad to me because I look now and they have a lot of conflict up in that unit with bears. So they have a tremendous of conflict up in that unit with bears, so they have a tremendous bear population and now they have no spring hunt right to help keep the numbers in Jack.
Speaker 2:So it's a very sad thing for us losing this hunt.
Speaker 1:How long was the spring bear hunt? Was it a month-long season or oh?
Speaker 2:goodness it's been so long. I want to say it was longer than that. When did they take away spring bear? That would have been. Let me look that up for you so I don't give you the wrong date. I've got so many of them.
Speaker 1:Because I remember it was mid-90s when they stopped the baiting and the dogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was another change. That was not good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was right after actually, I met Dave and I remember they announced that on the news and he's like, yeah, you're going to start seeing an explosion in bear and cougar numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a fact.
Speaker 1:And I know he used to go out and rarely, if ever, see a cougar on camera or anything like that, and now it's pretty common. You know I've gotten cougar on my camera. I always get bear on all of my sets yeah and even if I'm not running it now, I'm not running any type of bait, but if you have any type of lure scent that mimics the smell of of a bait, sure yeah, that was a deer, but yeah, you would see you'll have bear come by and at least check things out.
Speaker 2:So that was 2022.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I wanted to say it was 21, but I was like I don't think that's right. It was 2022. So a few years now without it and, like I said, it's been a sad loss. There's a lot of anger about that. But back to numbers. So I've been doing some studying on this for different units that I hunt in the springtime, and one of the things that I do this is part of my scouting, but, anyhow, one of the things that I do is I look at the numbers specifically, like we were just talking about the take numbers.
Speaker 2:And then some states make it easier than others to find those numbers. Their harvest reports are easier to come by Some of them you kind of have to dig a little bit to get to their harvest reports, and so when we start talking spring specifically, there's two things I'm looking for in the unit. The first is not just the take, but it's the take over several years, not just one year, because you can have a really large, for whatever reason. A large take one year and then five years later, you know you look at it and they're just pitiful.
Speaker 2:And it's not because of a lack of bears, it's just a lack of opportunity. Because when you think about spring, one of the things that affects us is the weather. So that will affect where the bears are going to be in the landscape. Are they going to be in a place where you can actually get to Burms snow berms are not uncommon and to lock people out of areas. So I like to look at weather patterns too. But we'll come back to the bear population. So I'm going to look at the numbers of what's being taken and then hopefully most of them do. You'll look at the number of sows being taken. That one tells me what I can expect in the bear population in the future. So if I see like a 50% mortality on the sows, my eyebrow goes up. That's a lot of sows to take like. If they're 50% of the take, that's a lot of sows to take out of a unit most of them are not that high.
Speaker 2:They're just not, but that's something to factor into your thinking. So if this is a unit that you're going to study and you want to be part of and, like the next 10 years, I'm going to hunt spring bear here, right this, you want to have that good population basis to sustain the hunt. For you as a person, it's not that there's not bears there, it's that it gives you more opportunity. I do a lot of mentoring.
Speaker 2:So, if I'm going to take somebody out, I want to take them to a place where we have the opportunity because the bears present themselves more often. There's enough bears to present more opportunities for that new to the game hunter. So those are things to think about. And then a lot of the states do set a limit on their sow. Take per unit. Again, I don't like it when it's a universal number. I don't think that's good science.
Speaker 1:So a limit on sow, the amount of sows that can be. How do you, how would they go about limiting the amount of? It's? Like the first 50 people who show up with a sow and then they okay.
Speaker 2:So it makes sense if you.
Speaker 2:it depends on the state, but a lot of them have mandatory checks, so especially if it's a state that classifies the bear as a fur bearer if it's a fur bearer, there's extra rules, and so not only are they going to take biological samples from it, they're going to seal the hide, but they're also going to record whatever information they can, and one of those is going to be the sex of the bear. So certain states, once they hit enough of the bears, come in and they're being checked and they look and they go okay, well, we're in unit whatever, pick a thing, this is unit abc well abc.
Speaker 2:We took five percent of the take so far and it's been female. So they shut the hunt down okay makes sense, so it's. It's based on the people reporting their take and that's just the way it is, but that's to maintain a sustainable harvest so as a hunter. I'm for for that because it makes logical sense.
Speaker 1:Will they typically just shut down the hunt entirely? It depends on the state.
Speaker 2:So it might be a unit by unit, it could be a specific region we'll call it which is a mix of units. It just depends.
Speaker 1:And I saw Washington has. I don't know if they're bear I might be getting the term wrong but bear management units.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that what they're called?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what they yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's like there's nine regions and but those are, they kind of manage all the units within those regions. The same, not exactly.
Speaker 2:So there's like don't I? I want to let me pull this up, so I I keep screenshots on my phone of papers and studies and whatnot, but I believe it is okanagan that's one of them that they have limited. It's definitely one of the ones with the later opener. They went from august 1 to august 15th I'm looking for the study for the. So they have an intrinsic growth rate which is 8% in Washington state. So what they're getting at is we don't want to go beyond that for our female mortality. So if our female mortality reaches that in Washington state specifically, they said the way I read it was they were going to close it down two weeks earlier. But yeah, and again, it's not that I find fault with the system of yes, we should have a cap because we do want a future of sustainable harvest. I just really disagree with that universality of 8% cap or whatever. Pick a number across the entire state. That's not appropriate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it should be Different, habitat different.
Speaker 2:It should be different based on the populations of that. Because if you think about that, there are certain places where that might be too much, yeah, might be way too high, and there's others where, gosh, you're not even in.
Speaker 1:No way too high. And there's others where gosh you're not even in. No, and not necessarily just population, but how many hunters are attracted to that particular area too. So while it might have a really huge population like twice the population density, we'll say, even though that might not be the right term, but of bear, but that particular area attracts four times the amount of bear hunters than another area. So yeah, it's factoring. There's a lot of factors that would go into it.
Speaker 2:And to touch on what you just said, there are states that I've been to that I kind of laugh a little bit. I'll know when there's been a push for a specific species at a specific time, because you'll see all the out-of-state license plates in one unit and what has happened is the game department has gone out and they're sending all those people to that one particular unit and I see that a lot. So yeah, it's not just a population study, it's a of a social study there too, yeah, who's coming? Yes.
Speaker 1:So, going forward from here, what in your mind should be done to protect the future bear hunting, to potentially bring back Although it's the government Whenever they take something away? They never give it back, but thinking about, we have new people on the game commission.
Speaker 2:Yes, very excited about that.
Speaker 1:Who seem I think three people were replaced and they all seem very pro-hunting. Yeah, but not. That's just me reading their bios. But going forward, what are some things that people could be should be doing too?
Speaker 2:So I think there's several things that we can do, could be should be doing too. So I think there's several things that we can do. The first one, the easiest one, is do you belong to some kind of a conservation organization? Not all of us have the luxury of being able to attend game meetings or other important votes because we have to work.
Speaker 2:It's a sad reality of life. I would love to be at every single thing, but I can't. So if I'm not in the shop, the machines aren't going up and down, the needles aren't going through the fabric and I'm not making the tents for a guy that's waiting on his tent. On the other hand, some of these organizations have full-time paid staff and it is their job right. That's why we donate to them as a business. That's why I donate to them. Job right. That's why we donate to them as a business.
Speaker 2:That's why I donate to them is to then I go to their banquets and support them is so that they can support these efforts here in the state, for not just the conservation of the habitat, which is absolutely, you know, 100% behind that, but there's legislation that needs to happen as well and our voice needs to be heard. So that's that's my first step. If you can do nothing else, then support these orgs that are doing the jobs for you, and that brings me to like. One of those would be American Bear Foundation and specifically the Washington chapter. So you'll see them at the game commissions or they'll sign up online to speak to fight for our future of bear hunting online to speak to fight for our future of bear hunting.
Speaker 1:Now, do they have? So they have the Washington branch. Do they have local? Is it a setup where there can be local clubs within?
Speaker 2:So it's not that big yet.
Speaker 1:Okay no-transcript.
Speaker 2:And so they're stepping up and saying what can I do? So that brings us back to your question. So, first off, you know, belong to some kind of an organization like that that's going to help. Howl for Wildlife's a good one. They are really good about posting action items that are easy for us to get on and, my gosh, I may not be able to be at the meeting that day, but I can hit a button right and send an email out. They make it very simple for us. And then you know, there's the in-person meaning can you go like I did here? And hopefully I want to make this next meeting? I really hope to do it and show up. Show up and use your voice.
Speaker 2:I think we need to be respectful right.
Speaker 1:Yes, we need to be careful because people are angry, and I get it.
Speaker 2:I get the anger, but I think when we speak with passion, not emotion, those are very different ideas.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:With passion for the things we love and we bring about the science behind it, the logic behind it. You can't refute that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean, the things that they come up with are butterflies and you know it's terrible.
Speaker 1:And you know, to support that we, having just recently gone through the period where we were giving feedback and we were encouraging our listeners to give feedback for the CWD- yes.
Speaker 1:And how that affected the black tail hunting and statewide. And we, you know, we kind of, after things settled, we gave our thoughts about all that. But yeah, you know, we tell people join the Black Tail Deer Foundation, you know Exactly If it's a type of hunting that is important to you, or even I would say, even if it's a mild interest. Usually the dues every year are $35.
Speaker 2:Right, they're cheap.
Speaker 1:So you know if it's within your budget. I say join them all, Right, because then they all have money to go and advocate on your behalf.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's what we're paying them to do to go advocate for a bunch of us on our behalf. And they are the ones who put money into studies or are looking up these studies that maybe different states do. Going back to the CWD, you know what did this state do? How was that effective? Okay, it wasn't effective. So why are we doing that here in Washington? You know things along this state do. How was that effective? Okay, it wasn't effective. So why are we doing that here in Washington? You know things along those lines, and I'm sure that touches in on Bayer as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And so I think there's the two parts, like we just mentioned, you know, belonging to an organization, going ourselves to these meetings. The third part, I think, is a personal responsibility, meaning our daily interactions with people as we talk to them. We can carefully you don't want to be a jerk, right, and I hate to hunt those people that are so like in your face about every little tiny thing and maybe that's just not on your radar but I think we can educate people in an appropriate fashion and just speaking to them about why we're passionate about the things we do.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that our company participates in is called Ladies Hunting Camp and we go there and we teach all kinds of things. It's a phenomenal resource for women who need a mentor and need to get out and aren't sure where to begin. So there's classes on shooting many types, so archery, modern firearm, muzzleloader, pistol. You know they've got NRA certified instructors, they've got all the things there and then I teach predator hunting, which is where I'm going with this. So one of the things one of the gals was talking to me about when she came to my class she said it just wasn't a blip on my radar, it just wasn't you know, deer are okay, and she kind of came into the class with a little bit of a chip on her shoulder and you know, like, why are you taking these barriers?
Speaker 2:How could you do that kind of a thing? But she said, man, you were so logical and the things that you said made sense to me. Where it's a balanced approach to managing our resources, it's not just about, you know, taking a bear to take a bear. I love the bear. That animal is fascinating to me and because I love that particular animal, I've studied it and I try to support the organizations that support its habitat. But sometimes that means belonging to like Mule Deer Foundation or Black Tail, because they are also protecting the habitat for the same animals, and so I don't necessarily distinguish between an organization for that purpose.
Speaker 2:But I think just being able to turn people's opinion by our logic and our passion again not an emotional thing, you know, cry me a river. No, it has to be. Yes, I'm passionate about it, but here are my logical reasons for why I do what I do.
Speaker 1:Excellent, all right. Thanks for joining us for part one of four of Black Bear Hunting with Heather Aldrich Tune in next week and for the next three weeks. Excellent, all right. Thanks for joining us for part one of four black bear hunting with heather aldrich tune in next week and for the next three weeks, and we're going to do a deep dive on the how to bear hunting.
