The Blacktail Coach Podcast
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The Blacktail Coach Podcast
Bear Hunting Part 4 with Heather Aldrich
What sets apart a dedicated bear hunter from someone just hoping to get lucky? The answer lies in understanding the intricate chess match between predator and prey.
Diving into part four of our bear hunting series with expert Heather Aldrich, we unpack the strategic mindset required for consistent success. Heather shares her preference for being an "ambush predator," carefully selecting locations based on thorough scouting rather than random "hope hunting." She explains how different hunting methods—from ambush setups to spot-and-stalk approaches—can be effective when matched to the right conditions and bear behavior patterns.
One fascinating technique Heather shares is "leapfrogging" trail cameras to track bears that appear nocturnal in one location but may be active during daylight hours elsewhere. "We'll back down the trail till we get to the point where he's in daylight," she explains, offering a practical solution to a common hunting challenge. She also discusses predator calling strategies, including carrying a simple "mouse squeaker" that can prompt a bear to turn broadside for a better shot opportunity.
The conversation shifts to post-harvest considerations, covering everything from approach techniques for downed bears to proper field dressing and hide preparation for taxidermy. Throughout, ethical hunting practices remain central: "It's way better to let a bear walk than to ever wound them," Heather emphasizes, highlighting that responsible hunters prioritize clean, humane harvests over simply filling tags.
Whether you're new to bear hunting or looking to refine your approach, this episode provides practical insights from someone who's spent countless hours studying these fascinating animals. Ready to elevate your bear hunting strategy? Listen now and discover how preparation, patience, and adaptability create hunting opportunities that others miss.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron and this week, part four, bear hunting with Heather Aldrich. Okay, so now let's talk about I just put it as methods for hunting. So how are you? And from my context of hunting blacktail and understanding and being new to hunting, so the sets, which is what we do, but there are guys who do spot and stalk, Yep, and then there's guys who just glass clear cuts, Sure, and so thinking and there might be other forms, but how are you hunting? Is it from sets? Is it glassing clear cuts, Is it spot and stalk or is it all of them?
Speaker 2:So as one of my friends would say, it's all the things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the things.
Speaker 2:So, again, it's adapting to the animal in that time of year. So I, if I had my perfect world, would be an ambush predator all the time. I love to do that. So I'll set up and it could be a ground blind, but a lot of times I'm too lazy, so I'll just brush myself in and, you know, make sure my outlines broke up and I'll sit on the ground and wait for him, Based on how I have done all the scouting, like we've done all the math ahead of time, we're not just picking a random spot in the woods, so I've got a reason for why I'm sitting there.
Speaker 2:That's one way. There is some places that again because I've done all the scouting. Okay, well, I know he's going to come across this particular area and maybe there's a big opening and I can glass and I can see he's going to come through here, right. So that's a place I could sit on, stand with a long-range view and be able to shoot. When I say long-range, you know 200, 300 yards, yeah you know, two, three hundred yards, yeah, and then glassing.
Speaker 2:That might be more springtime for me because usually by August, whatever I've long since picked my spot in the woods that I'm sitting. There are a lot of people who do do the glassing in the fall and there's nothing wrong with that. You'll pick them up on the food sources. So, but in the springtime, because they're moving so much and maybe I couldn't get in to do some of the homework I like to do before the hunt began, I'm going to try to pick them up in the topography, moving through, okay, if it is too dense a habitat, which a lot of times the places I'm hunting are. Then I carry glass with me, my binoculars, to be able to tell what kind of animal it is right, yeah, is that a sow? Is that a boar? Is it a boar that I'm interested in, et cetera.
Speaker 2:So, not as much glassing that time and then spot and stalk. That is, you know, you've done all the math and you've glassed one up and I'm going to go try to get to him. Now, hopefully, you've done your math, where if you've seen the bear, you know how to get to him. That's not something you want to figure out when you see your quarry. So you've done all this work and and you're like, oh, that's the bear I want. But now you don't know how to get to that ridge or that closed road or that whatever, wherever it is that you glass them up. So you need to make sure you know your unit really well and how to access the different parts of it and how you would get in and out of a specific area.
Speaker 1:Especially considering. So you hit your target and he's three, four hundred yards away, but next ridge over and you got to drag him out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you better know how you're getting him out.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, understanding limitations, physical limitations and everything like that, yeah, it's very important. Physical limitations and everything like that, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very important, not just the limitations of yourself, but the limitations of your firearm or your bow or whatever it is that you're using. Yes, important, important math.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, as we started talking about this, I realized I've gone along on a bear hunt once and it was just, it was glassing like from one ridgeline over to the other and we did have access and everything, but it was just. That was my one experience in Southern Oregon going for a spring bear hunt Yep, and kind of glassing. And then I always get, oh hey, you want to go hunting bear, but you have to put in for it. Yeah, I think it's a draw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when they, when they ask me, when you have to do that I'm not thinking about bear and yeah, maybe, and then oh, yeah, I can't yeah, you missed the missed the deadline I've missed, I've missed the window, and then it's like well, do I want to just go along for the ride and just kind of see things and stuff? So is spot and stock potentially. So we talk about guys who do spot and stock for deer is you know, the downside is you're spreading your scent everywhere through the woods and you have to worry about being quiet and being able to move without getting spotted Exactly without being seen yes, but it is. There are people who are incredible at it.
Speaker 2:Yes. So my husband is one of those people who's a really, really good deer hunter and he does the spot and stalk. He's phenomenal at it, and he can get right in there and take his buck, whereas, again going back to what I said earlier, I'm an ambush predator. I love to sit and wait for a targeted animal to come by. I think back to the satisfaction portion of I've studied him. And how begin? It's so thick a habitat. Where do they begin? They don't know, and it's not something you just suddenly walk into and hope. It's not hope hunting.
Speaker 1:I can hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I made a decision to sit here because of these factors and I have a good idea of the return rate on those because of the math that I've put into it and the studying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know you talked about before, about the chess match between you and the bear, and you know Dave refers to it's putting the puzzle together. Yeah, and you get this piece and this piece and this piece and the final piece is that you're harvesting that target and we do targeted bucks. You know to the point where we name them, we name our sets and it's funny because you know I'll talk about a particular buck that I might be going after and it might be a while, but I had guys walking up at the sportsman show and they'll talk, they'll tell me about, oh yeah. So have you have you spotted like one of my bucks, anakin? Have you spotted anakin yet this year?
Speaker 1:And it's like, and it's at first it kind of huh, oh yeah, I guess I do mention that on the, on the podcast quite a bit. So in one of them it was a particular about a year and a half old buck that was a palmated three point. Oh geez, so I'm not going to hunt him until he's mature. So there's four and a half. So, yeah, I'm watching him for multiple years. Yeah, but it's that chess match, yes, of like.
Speaker 2:Okay, I know which pieces are where and yeah, yeah then going for the king yes, and and, and that factors into our setup too. So, as a bear hunter in the fall, we know our other seasons open up. It's not just bear, so you're going to have the barrage of elk hunters and deer hunters and they factor into where I set up because they're moving pieces on the board, so you have all of them moving. You have the the target bear moving and you have to figure out how he's going to respond to their encroachment on his area. What's he going to do? And that goes back to the scouting of. Well, I know where his secondary area is. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Where he might shut down to. I have a question a lot from people who say well, I've got this bear on camera and he's obviously nocturnal. That's the standard answer, right? Well, I can't find him, so he's nocturnal. Well, my answer to that is yes, he's nocturnal in that spot. So move your camera right and try to pick him up sooner in the environment when the bear's in hyperphagia. He's not nocturnal, only he's up 20 hours plus.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, sleeping two to four hours a day.
Speaker 2:So you know that you're in an area where he's nocturnal, so that's not an area you can pick him up. Is it part of his habitat? Sure, it's part of his range, but you're just in the wrong spot. Try to get him somewhere else. So again, failure is not an option. We just need to find another way to look at the problem and how do I solve it, and come about it a little bit different direction and leave that camera. That's your control group, right?
Speaker 2:Because, I know he's there at that time and then start branching out into other areas that he might go to and you can pick him up.
Speaker 1:And one of the tricks that we use and we actually just mentioned this with one of the guys in our coaching is we start, we leapfrog cameras, Sure, and we'll back down the trail till we get to the point where he's in daylight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And using that method.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. So I think it's important to always have enough cameras deployed. And and there's no, again it's back to that universal answer. I don't have an answer for how many cameras to a specific area, it's topography. Yeah, maybe I can fit two cameras in, maybe there's a hundred. If I was a very rich and wealthy person, maybe I'd run 100 cameras, you know. But I try to keep, like I said, that control group off to one side. Maybe it's a long ways off, but I'm trying to make sure I know his boundaries. So that I can.
Speaker 2:I can get that particular bear, or, you know, sometimes their boundaries are softer. It just depends on what's happening, where they might go a little bit different than you expected them to, and so, having placed those we'll call them third cameras or fourth cameras that are not in the best place to soak them, you're going to have some information that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and you can put that on the chessboard and go gotcha.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting hearing all of this because it's like, oh okay, this is a lot of the methods we already use and the same thing with, you know, creating sets. Yeah. And trying to bring them in and getting them to daylight.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Now can, and I'm thinking about and I know you can't bait bear- no, you cannot.
Speaker 2:And we. Not in this state.
Speaker 1:no, we are. We do not bait in the state of Washington. Yeah, to be clear about that, wdfw is listening. But are there? Is there anything like lures or attractants that wouldn't be considered bait? Or maybe they are considered bait in the realm of bear that? You can use that might manipulate their behavior.
Speaker 2:So the first thing I would say is there are lots of products yes, they are not legal in the state of Washington Okay Meaning to use. You could probably purchase them and bring them back from Idaho or Wyoming or something, but you cannot use them. So the state defines. This is Washington. State now defines baiting as anything that attracts a bear. That includes scenting, so, like a sow in heat. You can't use that here In Idaho, sure you know? You just have to use it around your registered bait site. You can't just deploy it willy-nilly through the woods. They frown upon that kind of activity, can't imagine why. So that state? Yes, you could use drags, lures et cetera, but you can't use them here in Washington.
Speaker 1:State Okay, so just absolutely nothing. That, quote unquote manipulates their behavior. Correct, to make them think that something's happening there, okay, so that again, that would make things a little trickier Because you can't manipulate their behavior. But if you're finding where they're at the right habitat and food source, and all that, well, if you're ambush hunting over a food source, well, you didn't put it out.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's not baiting, that's a natural topography. They're going through the woods and they're eating. I'm not putting apples out for them, kind of a thing. Yeah. They're coming to huckleberries and they're eating them or barrel as part of your test for judging a bear size, right that's? People have a really hard time with judging bear size.
Speaker 1:Dave actually went to Manitoba and he said okay, he was showing me pictures. If it's standing by this barrel, it's a 300 pound bear. If it's standing by this barrel, it's a 400 pound bear.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and it helps you a lot with with chance. And then it also allows for that extra time where you can a hundred percent verify yes, allows for that extra time where you can 100% verify yes, I've got a sow, or yes, I've got a boar, or maybe the cubs finally bumbled in, because they can take a little bit sometimes to show up with mom and I'm always watching, especially if I think it's a sow, and to make sure there's no cubs with the animal. So that's one of the reasons I love the idea of baiting is we are trying, as a bear hunter, to take a specific bear from the population. This allows for the future recruitment. So if I take an aged boar out, I know there's going to be more cubs that live that year because he's not killing them right, or some of the three to five-year-old bears, because it's been proven that they'll come out of hibernation. They'll go dig up younger bears and kill and eat them. So all that's happening.
Speaker 2:And so you take those older boars out and, yes, the younger boars will grow up and they'll become older boars. But that's what we're looking for and so I absolutely am for baiting. I know there's a lot of and I've heard it over the years of people who are anti-baiting. Well, that's not hunting and it is a type of hunting and I think we need to be careful, as hunters, that we support one another. We all have our different and preferred methods. If it's a legal method, then I have nothing to say against it.
Speaker 2:If it's legally allowed, like in the state of Idaho they allow baiting. I have nothing to say against it. If it's legally allowed, like in the state of Idaho, they allow baiting. I have nothing against that. They also allow hounds. I have nothing against that. Again, it's that selective harvest. They are going to tree a bear and they'll know what they've got.
Speaker 2:Right, you can look it over and you know exactly what you've. And I mean, they're not even put their hounds on a sow with cubs, so let's just take that out of the equation. The houndsmen are good at what they do, right? They know what they're on. So when they set their dogs out, it's not. That always makes me mad when the anti-hunters oh, the houndsmen, you know the poor sows, they're not doing that, they're not doing that.
Speaker 1:And kind of making the idea of, oh, they're just releasing a pack of dogs to rip this animal apart. No, and that's not what's happening at all.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1:Because, well, no, it's because they want to actually harvest that particular animal. Correct, If it's the animal that they want.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Correct. And I think as you go along and grow as a hunter you start becoming, because at first it's well, I just want that first, so you might take for deer, I took a spike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:And but well, next year I don't want a spike, I want something bigger. Right, Then I want you know, then, once I have a mature buck, I want a mature buck that has this attributes Sure, once I have a mature buck, I want a mature buck that has this attributes. Sure, you know, we have actually one of the guys on our team. He wanted a big regress forked horn. That was his trophy. And now he wants to actually find a regress back to a spike black tail, if that exists.
Speaker 2:But that's half the fun is finding out.
Speaker 1:Finding out and, yeah, the work that you put into it and then, yeah, it's a lot of. It is the satisfaction of just picking up skills over the year and learning your animal, especially if you have a target bear yes, I've learned that. Animal, yes, and the greater satisfaction that comes from that, and I think that's why we do a lot of sets and things like that. It's because I've watched that and we can't do minerals anymore, but you know. Sure.
Speaker 1:Before it was like I did what I could to maintain the health and everything of that particular deer because I wanted to harvest that deer. Yeah, x number of years later.
Speaker 2:I think there's a satisfaction, but I also think there's a huge appreciation for an animal that you've studied for a really long time and when you finally lay hands on them and you're running your fingers through the fur, there is a huge appreciation to me me, anyways of how valuable this animal's life is. And you know, I took it and I'm gonna do my dead level best to use every part of that animal to prepare it and not allow wastage of any kind. It means a lot to me because I've studied him and and I know how he moves and the things that he does, and so a huge, huge appreciation in that moment.
Speaker 1:What about calls Predator calls.
Speaker 2:Predator calls a lot of fun Just plain fun.
Speaker 1:Is it legal in Washington?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, you can predator call Now? Can, At least for now, Give them a couple of weeks right Now? Can, At least for now, Give them a couple weeks right?
Speaker 1:So what kind of calls predator calls are you using for bear, and do they work?
Speaker 2:So yes, yes they do. I kind of laugh a little bit. I sometimes feel like predator calls are like fishing lures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying so.
Speaker 2:There's a lot out there, and sometimes it's not the lure's fault.
Speaker 2:So any call we get, we need to be proficient with it. And but when I say proficient, it's not just the sound coming from it, meaning we want to sound like whatever animal we're trying to imitate. But I have noticed sometimes that for predator calling it's a great thing for the kids, and if you have an old coyote that's been called to a million times and he's heard the same old rabbit, right, he's like oh, that's a cottontail in distress, I'm going the other way, right.
Speaker 2:He knows it's a call, but you give that same call to a kid and he doesn't blow it, right. I mean, it's the weirdest noises you ever heard. And that coyote will come in because you've piqued his interest, because it's so different, and so that kind of thing happens. So I may not necessarily be the best caller in the world, I may not sound exactly right, but does it work Good enough? And a lot of times so, I carry a mouse squeaker with me, so if I need a bear to turn maybe I'm trying to get him broadside or something I'll hit my mouse squeaker and that's just enough to pique his interest and have him turn for me so I can get that broadside shot. So I always carry one of those.
Speaker 1:And it's called a mouse squeaker.
Speaker 2:It's just a mouse. It's just a little mouse. It sounds like a mouse. It's kind of a rubbery thing. You squeak it. Okay, Some people put it on their rifle. I just keep it in my pocket and then I can kind of bump it with my elbow. So I'm not making a lot of movement right. I'm just trying to get it to make a noise so that I'm still in my position of shooting. That I've just moved a little bit to hit the squeaker and he'll turn and I get my shot. That I needed. Lots of people predator, call for bears in the fall. It's a really good method of take and you know, it's just like anything else that you're calling in, be it a coyote, a cougar, bobcat, whatever. It's just fun. It's just fun.
Speaker 2:You may have lots of times where there's nothing right, there's zero, you got nothing. And then that one time that it works, you're like whoa. Now you're hooked for life. I have seen bears that they were videoed because they could care less and it wasn't open season, we were just playing. So we're calling and calling, and calling. That bear's just looking at us like that's nice. This is zero response, like flatline. So I think it can be again an individual type thing, but it's really effective in the spring too, when the calves are dropping. Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll go into a place like that where I expect the cows to come in and have their young, and that's a great place, unless, of course, you have a grizzly population and then it wouldn't be calling, so you might get the wrong bear. Yeah so.
Speaker 2:I am careful when I say I predator call. There are places I do not predator call unless I have seen the bear. Meaning I'm seeing the black bear and I'm trying to get some kind of behavior from him. Meaning I need him to turn or I need him to stop or something like that. In fact I shot a boar a couple of years back. I took my son out with me trying to get him his first bear, and we'd seen seven bears that day and it just wasn't coming together for him. Bless his heart. And I was annoyed because I'm a parent, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like this is a phenomenal day. In the woods We've seen seven bears and the last was a set of a boar and a sow together and I'm trying to get him on him and I'm realizing he's he's not doing it. So the sow sees us as I'm out of here, so she's hauling the mail.
Speaker 2:I mean she's going for it and the boar starts to take off and he's starting to pick up steam and so I couldn't reach any of my calls. So I'm just barking at him like I would a coyote real loud, sharp bark, and he couldn't stand it and he stops and when he stopped he stopped broadside and I shot. So I'm looking at my son and he's like what the heck mom? I'm like what the heck son. You know how many bears are we going to let go today? So predator calling is very effective, but again it needs to be. You need to be careful. I mean you're predator calling.
Speaker 2:So, you're saying. I'm a food. We're careful of what's in the environment, what's my backdrop, what's around me. I like to have the topography set up where I'm working with the animal, as opposed to I'm trying to force a certain behavior. That doesn't necessarily work. You're fighting too many things. So I'm trying to watch where's my wind, currents, what's the temperature, what's the weather doing, what other predators are in the area, and then the blowdowns or the bushes or the what have you. Are they going to impede him when he comes in, or are they going to be too tall where he came in? And now I can't take the shot because he's obscured, or his vitals are obscured by something that's, in my way, perfect world. You know he's going to circle and he's going to come in broadside to me. That's what I want. So it's a lot of darn fun.
Speaker 1:If you've scouted an area and you're doing an ambush hunt do you ever cut in shooting lanes?
Speaker 2:No, I don't need to. I am, so I don't have that kind of time. I wish I could. I think about those things all the time. You know, it'd be really nice if I cut a lane right there right. And then the world comes in. I'm like I got to get back to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, I know people who do, and it's really interesting to watch. I am always watching the woods itself and how are the animals traveling through it. And so one year my area burned and it burned pretty bad and I put all this time and effort into it. And now bear season's open and I'm in an adjacent area. Well, I got to use all the things I know to try to find a bear, but I don't have any of the math behind it no cameras, no idea. So I'm going into an area blind, and so I put all my rules into effect, things I would normally do and I found a place to sit where, okay, he's going to travel through here and he's going to head to this food source.
Speaker 2:Well, I thought I had scouted all the darn trails. Well, I missed one, and that's the one he came in on so I could kind of see the bear, but it was just his top line. There's no shot opportunity there. So I was really irritated with myself because it's like doggone it. I missed that one and that's just the way it goes. So it's harder when I don't have all the math behind me that chess game, because I was missing part of the data, right.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and that's so one of the Dave talked about, based off of some research he'd done or some study, that basically the average hunter to kill a mature buck is basically it's a three-year process Because it's oh, I missed that last year, but now I know for this year and.
Speaker 1:I can do this or this, Hunting a new spot myself last year, and realize now I know for this year and I can do this or this, hunting a new spot myself last year and realize, oh okay, so they didn't all come in from one particular area. There's another spot where they come down and come into my set. Oh, I probably should have maybe dropped a couple branches to cause them to have to walk in a certain way.
Speaker 1:Right when they'd walk in broadside. So there's certain things and you know a lot of ours. We do create shooting lanes, but a lot of our guys do archery and it's just necessary.
Speaker 2:Absolutely vital.
Speaker 1:But it's like a two foot by two foot window, yeah, and so you are absolutely dependent on that animal coming in correctly, or else it's forget it yeah because you have a little tiny window, and that's it now do you primarily a rifle? Yes, for years. Okay, have you ever done any muzzleloader or archery anything for for bear?
Speaker 2:no, it's not broke. Don't fix it, I don't know't know, it's just my rifle is like my arm to me. Yeah. I've used it. It's just my I don't know. I guess I can get stuck in ruts. It goes back to the adapting thing. I'm good with that particular rifle. I use it all the time and I'm very comfortable with it. I don't have to think about things really.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, with it, I don't have to think about things really.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's just so rote to me and it's just not that I don't like the other methods, it just I haven't seen an advantage to it. If that makes sense now, if there was a season, let's say that they opened up and they said well, this is muzzleloader season only, you bet your bet gonna be out there with a muzzleloader, right, yeah? Or if that's archery only, and I will be out there if it gives me more opportunity at a different time of year with a different tag, I'd be on that 100%. Then it makes sense to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But right now the opportunities are good enough. With where I'm at, you know, I've got spring hunts and I've got fall hunts and a good amount of time for both. What's the closest you brought in a bear to harvest? Too close, a little too close. So I radioed my husband one time and I said I've just shot the most beautiful bear ever. And he says, well, can you see him? Because that's the first question, right, can you see? I'm looking at my feet going, yep, I can see him. I said, target, angry, target, very angry. So I had shot this blonde bear and he I was between him and his cover and he came right at me and it's not like he's coming for me, he's coming for his cover and I'm in his way.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that was. That was a little too close. Oops, and that's how you learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because it's thinking about our archery hunters that are listening. Who will go archery bear hunt? Sure you have to. You just have to be closer.
Speaker 2:Yes, you do.
Speaker 1:And the same thing with deer. It's one thing to have gone hunting or shot at a deer at 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards, but when you see the biggest buck of your life and he's 10 yards away. It throws you as far as and we talk about mindset a lot yeah, being ready for that situation because of buck fever.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I imagine it would be the same thing with bear. You're going to get bear fever, you know.
Speaker 2:There are people who do. I'm one of those weird individuals that's outside of the norm. I do not get excited until my tag is notched. When my tag is notched, boy, you got to give me 10, 15 minutes because I fall apart Like I'm no good for nothing for a while and then I'll dress the bear out. Right, I'm just, I got my bear, but before that, just it doesn't even factor in. I'm thinking about all the things making sure the shot placement's right, I'm watching everything that's happening and making sure the follow through is there and all the things you should do. But once that's down, oh my gosh, what a mess, total mess. Now, you know, members of my family, they're not that way.
Speaker 2:They're like you know, and I'm like breathe, you know, do your things, you know what you're supposed to do, follow your steps. And so I do admire the archery hunters. You know my son's a really good archery hunter. He's sneaky. I like to say you get that from your mother. Yeah, so you got to be sneaky. But you know, I think it's a really cool way to go out and hunt and see the world. And you do have to be very careful in shot placement, just like anything else. But again, it's just a different way to do the same thing.
Speaker 1:Is there a time of day that you found that? So, actually, having talked through all this, it depends on everything else but-.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, there are specific times of day that are really good.
Speaker 1:Mornings, evenings, or do you do all day sits when you go out and up out before dark or before light.
Speaker 2:So it really depends on the kind of barram hunting and how he moves through the topography and the time of year. So there are certain ones that they just move at oddball times and I've been real, real good at getting into them. And there's other ones that are very, very consistent in how they go through the life and so you know they might be the consistently just before dark, coming into the opening that I've been waiting for him in, and so I know there's no point in sitting there all day because he'll only be there, you know, just before dark. And or there's there's areas that they'll travel through. This one boar he would go by the camera consistently, you know in the morning, not the same day, but in the mornings he'd cruise by. So I know that's an area that I'm going to go hunt in the morning and and let's say, let's say he goes by the camera on a wednesday, well, I know I'm going to go out, I'm going to hunt tuesday, wednesday, thursday and try to get that bear, because he's not going to be, you know, they don't have watches, but sometime during the morning. I know he's going by and it's based on his food and how he's traveling through the environment, but times of day.
Speaker 2:I have noticed over the last few years it to be very inconsistent, meaning there's one spring where you could bet your bottom dollar. At 4 pm you were going to see bears. It was just like clockwork 4 pm there was bears everywhere. And this spring same unit no, there wasn't a bear to be seen. At 4 pm, they were not out. But at 10 am, like clockwork. And it's very interesting how they'll change. The reasons for that. I'm not entirely certain. It's one of those things I would like to look into and understand them better. Why are they so specific in a specific area at these specific times? It's very, very curious to me, because there's no thing where you can say, okay, well, it was wind, it was temperature, it was food. I mean, I can't put my finger on why they made that change, but they did and it's the exact same unit. So we're not talking about the differences in topography like east side and west side of the state. It's not like that.
Speaker 1:And then the weather's relatively the same.
Speaker 2:The same. So there's no factor. You can say, okay, that's the thing. But in the fall I like afternoons. I know a lot of people hunt early morning and evening and those are great times, but I like the afternoons.
Speaker 2:So if you ever go out hunting in the fall for deer or elk, you'll hear the woods come alive. In the morning, right, everybody's getting in their trucks and they're driving to their spot where they're going to go hunt, and it's just loud, right. All that movement. There's a tremendous amount of movement and as a predator hunter I pay attention to sounds and waves of things. So there's this wave of movement and sound going through the woods as all these trucks fire up or ATVs or pick something, right, and they go to their spot and they sit and it's kind of quiet for a while, so that 10 o'clock mark becomes good, right, because the bears are going to cross the road and they know everybody's already left the camp. It's a great time.
Speaker 2:Or if you're a bear, that's a marauder, it's a great time to go check out the tent. So there's that. And then in the evening right, it's that same movement people going out to their stands they're usually a lot of them are back in their, their tents or their campers, whatever for lunch, and so there's a time in the in the afternoon that 2 pm to 4 pm mark where the woods are quiet and there's no one driving around or walking around or whatever, and consistently I see bears at that time because they've they've patterned us and figured out this is a great time to go do whatever it is they want to go do.
Speaker 2:Because not?
Speaker 1:everybody's moving around.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so to wrap things up, post-harvest. So you've got your bear on the ground, and so last year, having got my first buck, I have this thing laying on the ground in front of me. I'm like now what? Yeah, now, what do I do with thing laying on the ground in front of me? I'm like now what, yeah? Now, what do I do with?
Speaker 2:this. Now the work begins.
Speaker 1:So you know it was, and because no cell service, I had to drive. Actually, I had to drive about three miles away to get to where I did have cell service. And then I'm texting yeah, I got a buck down, what do I do and who's available? My nephew had to actually come out and help me with getting them out of the woods and everything. So you know, some people might need to prep it for taxidermy, you know, or, if anything, getting it ready for the butcher, and I know a lot of people actually do their own. Yes, but some people, yeah, it's, it's going to the, to the butcher. But what, as far as, what do you need to do for right, like the immediate first thing and I'll ask about is so, after you shoot, how long are you waiting? And I'm thinking about this because, especially with archery and, like I said, a lot of our guys are archery you don't want to immediately go after you put a bullet.
Speaker 1:Or even if it is rifle, you don't immediately want to go running towards wherever this is Definitely not. Because if you've just wounded it now, you're picking a fight, yeah. So how long are we waiting before we go looking?
Speaker 2:So those are all really good questions and I base it on the individual circumstance. Okay. So the first question is can you see the bear Right?
Speaker 2:If you can see the bear, you're home free and that's a good thing. So if you can't see the bear, right, if you can see the bear, you're home free and that's a good thing. So if you can't see the bear, and you know you've made a good hit and you're in really dense topography habitat, I will wait, and I'm not, you know, it really depends. I try to listen and I'm getting older so it's harder for me to hear as good as I used to. But I try to listen and I'm getting older so it's harder for me to hear as good as I used to. But I try to listen for a couple things. One is do I hear the sound of movement in the brush like you hear them running off? Right, because you'll hear their, their fur on the bushes. Sometimes you hear a death moan. It's it's not very often just okay, it's that air escaping the lungs and everybody's so famous. Oh, I gotta hear the death moan. I've shot so many bears and I think I've heard it twice. You know Okay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's just one of those. So Dave films his hunt and the one I just said. He went up to Manitoba. He did get that and they got that on camera or on film because it was off camera.
Speaker 2:Right and so, but that's, these guys lit was test, had to hear this. Okay, you may hear it, you may not, especially if you're getting old and deaf, like I am. So I'm listening for those things any kind of sound of movement. And if you've got Now, if I've got somebody with me, right that I'm mentoring, I'm asking them the questions what did you see? What did it look like? Did you do follow through? Did you do this, did you do that experience with what I saw as I'm watching them take the shot right To see if we're conflicting or we're seeing the same thing, and then I'll know where to start looking or whether we need to give it a few minutes, and most of the time that half an hour mark is good. If it's marginal, then I would wait a lot longer. And now you've got trouble, so. So I've always said it's way better to let a bear walk than to ever wound them. We, we don't want to do that anyways, that's, that's not, yeah, not an ethical shot it's not ethical, it's not.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not nice to cause suffering. We don't want to do that. So if you're having trouble and you can't settle down, then we let the bear walk. That's, that's my role, like some of the people I've had with me. They get target panic and they just need to look away and then you bring them back to it and now they can do the job. But it's that recognition of.
Speaker 2:I have an issue here don't squeeze the trigger right and being able to look at things and so don't take a bad shot. Let's start there, right, and then, if it is a good shot but it's just really dense habitat and you want to give some time just to be safe, that half an hour mark's really good and most of the bears that I've had to look for they had expired. But you know, when you're in that really thick junk, I mean it's terrible. You don't want to be crawling on your hands and knees with a bear that's not dead right, because you're looking for blood or any kind of sign a broken limb turned over leaf, whatever it is you're looking for and to get the sign of what has happened. So we want to treat them very carefully and then let's say, we do see the bear. I always approach from the back line, not from his paws or his head, because you know those are dangerous weapons. There's nothing more dangerous on the planet than a dead bear. Right, we want to make sure he's dead. You don't just go poking and grabbing a bear. That's not a good thing at all. They are dangerous animals, so we need to be careful. And then you know, let's, let's say everything's perfect world.
Speaker 2:We found him really quickly and, and now I'm going to start to break him down into, into the, the food and the, the hide that I'm going to keep. So some things that I think about with that is what's the weather like today? If it's hot, I want to get things going as fast as I can. You want to get that hide off and that meat cooling down, especially on our fall bears that are more fatty. You want to get it cooling down quick. Do I have to pack him out? Or is this I can, you know, pack him a little ways and get him to a road kind of a deal? If it's a pack out situation, you're going to try to get rid of as much bone as possible.
Speaker 2:You don't want to pack him when you have to right, so I might debone it right there. And the other question I have is am I in grizzly habitat? Yeah, because I just rang the dinner bell, yeah.
Speaker 1:So in those cases, a lot of times one of us is working on the bear and one of us is standing guard, just for safety, and I've heard that a lot when you're in grizzly area that, yeah, one person is prepping everything and one person is standing guard.
Speaker 2:And we're not doing like we're not, messing around Like we're not, and I'm going to take the bear down to a certain degree and throw them on our packs and we're going to get out of there Because, yes, you've rang the dinner bell, so there's an audible sound to the grizzlies, but also they have, just like the black bear, an incredible sense of smell. So they're going to smell the carcass, right, and so you need to, you need to not be lingering forever. Get the job done, get your stuff and get out. You know the job done. Get your stuff and get out. You know, be careful, and it's people can freak out because, oh, it's grizzly terrible, and you know they're trying to go too fast and cut themselves with the no, just slow down, be deliberate, just do the job right.
Speaker 2:But you, you got to be careful where you're at. If there's no pressures, no time pressures, then then I might do a little more work in the field than I would normally. Maybe I'll take the paws out there, so I don't have to carry them. It just depends on what kind of time of day it is. Are we just before dark and I need to get out? Well then, I'm not going to do that fine work there. I'm going to take them apart and put them on my back and go. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So what kind of? And for multi-state, everybody's got different rules about what they need to do as far as maybe what kind of samples that biological samples that they need, or transporting right bare cross-state lines or parts hides whatnot so.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot to that and it goes back to educating ourselves. So when we go to a new state, what are their rules.
Speaker 2:And then, even if you've been in washington a years, right, you check the rules every year to see if there's any changes. You know, god forbid you miss something. So if the state classifies them as a furbearer, then there's some different rules attached to that. So, like Idaho, they seal the hide. You have to take it in, have it inspected. Take it in, have it inspected. They seal the hide and they're going to take the tooth sample from it, which Washington just made a mandatory rule that we have to turn in the teeth of our biological samples.
Speaker 2:That just happened this year. It's in the rigs. I checked it to make sure I know they were voting on it, but they did actually. It did actually become rule.
Speaker 1:So all of the teeth or just one of them?
Speaker 2:No, just the one behind the canine. Okay, so you'll have to get a tooth sample and envelope and turn it in. They're pretty easy to take out really. I've done a lot. So when you've got your bear down, you're going to put a stick in his mouth so you can get those tooth samples out later. Really important, so that I mean, if he rigor mortis sets in, you got a heck of a time getting that tooth out. So put some kind of little stick in his mouth to keep the jaw propped open so you can get that tooth out, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Some of the states it's not mandatory, but they ask for on the sow that if you take a sow that you turn in the uterus and ovaries. I'm not sure what they're studying for that, but that's just one of the things that they're asking for. It just again, it depends on the state. Just make sure you read the regulations. I have people all the time that say could you come to a seminar and would you tell us the rules? No, I won't tell you the rules.
Speaker 2:You are personally responsible to know the rules for the state you're in. You know not that crazy lady that hunts pears all the time said I could do this. You know you are responsible to read and make sure you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:And so we get a lot of those questions too. Well, what's especially now with the CWD? What can? I do with that and I you know my stance is what I've told. Everybody is like look, they have unlimited resources to come after you if you've broken the law. Do you have unlimited resources to defend yourself, then you better know what you're doing and err on the side of caution. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of states require evidence of sex that's pretty standard anymore to be attached to the hide. Some states do not require you to take the meat out, which whatever. I have very deep thoughts about that.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? Take the meat out, they're a fur bearer so you can hide.
Speaker 2:You can. They're a fur bearer, so you can shoot them and take just the hide and leave the meat. Oh. I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's not true in Washington state just to work clear yeah, you have to take, you do.
Speaker 2:And then you should. That's just my own personal. You know bear is delicious it is. I don't understand this computer everything anymore. I like paper. Paper's good, it always works. So anyhow, that's a whole nother thing.
Speaker 2:The next thing that should happen is prepping of the hide, because you're going to break it down into meat, but you want the hide cut in an appropriate way, so before you've even left, long long before you found a taxidermist that you like and you've talked to them and you've asked them how do you prefer to receive a hide, and because they're different in how they want things, and so I'm going to talk to them and and getting a feel for that particular taxidermist and how they want that hide to come to them, and then they might have some specific, you know, do this, do that for the type of mount that I wanted, and I'll take that into the field. I've been working with the same taxidermist for a long time and he does an excellent job on bears, and so I know what I need to do for him.
Speaker 1:But I'll go in. Feel free to mention his name if you want to drum up some more business for him. I'm okay with that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's Steve with Washougal Taxidermy. Okay, and the poor guy. You know, I'll bring him a bear and I kind of want a rug but not a rug. So I've taken a lot of bears, okay, so now I hang them by their nose because, there's only so much wall space so I'll hang them by their nose.
Speaker 2:But basically what I want is a rug without it being rugged. I want the prep work that they put into a rug, meaning the hide is stretched, it's blocked out back to its original size after tanning, the lips are turned, the ears are turned right side out, so there's any trimming that might need to be done. So it's a clean, nice look and then it's more of a softer tan so it can hang and not be like cardboard. You know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But without the felt behind it and the sewing and all the things. So that's how I have a lot of mine done, but that's a lot of prep work. There's a lot of work in that. So there's that. When you look at a bear, I think it's really important if you've never ever cut a bear ever to go online and look at some of the videos that are out there. There's a lot of good ones. It'll give you a really good idea of how to make the cuts. They're odd creatures and it would seem like it's, you know, a simple thing, but it's not. And I see a lot of badly cut bears online and I just cringe. I just have to look away.
Speaker 2:Like don't look at it because they just cut it wrong. So educating yourself. The best world is to have somebody in the field with you that's done, a lot of bearers, that can show you the right way to cut them. If I'm going to do a shoulder mount, then I'm going to cut along the spine area so that they can. So that's where the height is the thickest right.
Speaker 2:Okay so they're going to be able to make that look really clean. If you cut the belly like you would for a rug, that's where the hide is the thickest, right. Okay, so they're going to be able to make that look really clean. If you cut the belly like you would for a rug, that's the thinnest part on the bear and that's going to be harder for them to hide the seaming that they're going to have to do.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting Because, yeah, as a novice myself, I would just assume that you would cut along the belly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be a rug mount and you want your cuts as square to each other as you can get. That way, when the bear is laid out for the rug, he will be symmetrical. It's really important. If you're off a little bit, then they may have to trim, they may have to cut and sew to put her back together again. It just depends on the people you're with and how knowledgeable they are. The other things that make it tough, because I'm a perfectionist. I just am Like I've got enough bears now that I know what I'm doing and I want it perfect and I'm very hard on myself if it's not perfect.
Speaker 2:But there's no flat ground, right, like I don't know about most people, but when I'm out in the woods there's no perfectly flat spot to work on this darn bear and so you're trying to get square cuts and he's rolling around and you know, and it's steep and and yeah, and you're trying not to lose your, your witness here, and and people are like it's okay. I'm like no, it's not exactly perfectly straight, you know, especially if it's someone else's bear, and I've taken them out and it's their first bear, I want it absolutely perfect for them so they can get the best mount possible.
Speaker 2:So those are all important things. And heat I'm always concerned about heat when it comes to meat. I don't care whether it's a deer, an elk, a bear, whatever.
Speaker 2:You want to get that meat cooling down, and so we're getting it packed out. Maybe I will try to bundle it where it's on my backpack, but it's not. It needs to be cinched down. So it's on there, not going to come off. But you want air to be able to get to it, so I don't want to wrap it in the center of something, right? So all that heat is caught in your backpack, your day pack, whatever.
Speaker 2:I want it to help dissipate, so I try to put it to the exterior of the pack so wind or whatever can help cool them, cool me down as we're walking out, hiking out. And the same with the hide. You don't want any, any kind of ropes or ties or whatever that could rub on the nose and and leave a bald spot on your bare hide. You know, just being cognizant of things like that and being careful. And then I myself can take the skull out and the paws and you know I'll take it down to the last knuckle there, it's not a problem. But I do not turn the lips and I don't turn the ears because those are really really advanced subjects. I would call them and I don't feel competent enough and I am enough of a perfectionist that I don't touch them. I know better, because I will be really upset with myself, but they're not exactly perfect. So, and there's nothing wrong with that Getting it to your taxidermist, they can do that.
Speaker 2:Finish work. Your face on a bear hide will be some of the first places to slip, so you want to make sure you get the skull out. Let it cool down. I bring a little portable freezer with us and a generator so that I can cool that hide down as quickly as possible, and the same with the meat and keep it fresh and in good working order. I'll call it. You don't want, I don't want the meat to freeze. Right then and there right.
Speaker 2:It needs to age, but I want it cold, especially when it's 90 degrees out. You know you don't want any bone rot or anything like that. So I'll cut the bone out and put it in there, and then you know if you're going to freeze the bear. Really important, make sure you don't try to salt it first. I don't know what the thinking is. What do you do when it's icy outside? Right, you throw salt on the driveway. Don't salt your bear and then try to freeze it. Don't do that.
Speaker 1:I've actually never heard of that.
Speaker 2:So, and it doesn't matter whether you're going to salt it or you're going to freeze it, you want to get as much of that fat off as you can, because it just holds that heat into the flesh. So I try to get and the fat is a precious resource, too right that you can render it down, so right that you can render it down, so I'm not just chucking it like a like a heathen oh, but I want it off the hide.
Speaker 1:so, and that hide for you render it down, for we'll call it lard for and boot grease making biscuits, all the things, okay, so, and I think that was something that I've wondered in the past and I didn't think about writing it down is the gaminess? I? You know, I would have thought bear fat, probably gamey.
Speaker 2:You want to leave it, but no, okay, it's a prized, prized position. People make lip balm out of it, they make hand lotions, I mean there's all kinds of things you can do, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, resource, use everything.
Speaker 2:So you know on, on the spring bears, you're probably not going to get much. You're just not because they're coming out of the den pretty underweight, but in the fall they're they're chock full of it okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I think we've covered it three a little over three hours worth of content here. So, yeah, hopefully we've got everybody at a place where they can have a good start for bear hunting. But thank you very much for coming on. Besides the sportsman shows, you always do seminars there. You're at Puyallup and Portland. Are you at any others?
Speaker 2:Not for sportsman shows. Okay. We, you know, I'll do seminars for different places, it just depends on what's coming on. People ask me to come speak for them, and so I'll go. I'll go talk to them, but you know, the ladies camp and the kids camp that the Yowls put on is something that we always go to, but year round, you know, we're in the shop building tents or we're out hunting. That's what we do.
Speaker 1:Okay, if somebody wanted to. Actually because we've had people from hunting clubs, local hunting clubs what's the best way to reach you?
Speaker 2:They can email me at Heather that's H-E-A-T-H-E-R, at bravotents, T-E-N-T-S dot com, and depending on what time, of year and stuff it is.
Speaker 1:if I'm not busy, I'll come talk to them. Yeah, If you're contacted in spring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good luck.
Speaker 1:Because that was one of the things where I emailed and I think it had been a couple of weeks, hadn't heard anything and Dave looked at me. He's like she's out bear hunting, yep, and sure enough, like two days later. Hey, sorry for taking a while. I was out bear hunting.
Speaker 2:Yep, just got back. Yeah, so bear to put up and you know, cut up and put it in the freezer and all the things, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Great Well, again, thank you for joining us and passing along. We like to educate everybody on what they're doing out there. And, yeah, it's made me more excited, for this was the first year I was actually seriously considering bear hunting, and so this has got me a little more excited towards that. Oh, that's my job All right. Thanks for joining us and we'll talk to you again next week. Thank you.
