The Blacktail Coach Podcast
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The Blacktail Coach Podcast
Decoy Dynamics: Adding a New Dimension to Blacktail Hunting
Decoys have long been a staple in whitetail and turkey hunting, but their potential for blacktail hunting remains largely untapped. Why leave such an effective tool out of your hunting arsenal? Aaron and Dave break down everything you need to know to successfully deploy decoys for blacktail deer this season.
The positioning of your decoy isn't just important—it's absolutely critical. Dave shares his hard-earned knowledge on strategic placement, explaining how bucks and does approach decoys differently. "If I'm using a buck decoy, that buck should circle around to the front," Dave explains, "If it's a doe decoy, most of the time those bucks will approach that doe decoy from the rear." This simple insight could completely transform your hunting success.
The conversation goes deep into practical considerations: Should you use a buck or doe decoy? Standing or bedded? How should you apply scents to enhance realism? When should you add calling to the mix? The hosts cover it all while debunking myths and providing real-world applications specific to blacktail deer behavior.
Perhaps most valuable is their discussion of what not to do—common mistakes that can ruin an otherwise perfect setup. "Don't put the decoy where you want the buck to stand," Dave advises. "Put the decoy so that you're thinking the buck is going to circle toward you, focusing away from you."
Whether you're a seasoned hunter looking to add another dimension to your strategy or a beginner trying to increase your odds of success, this episode delivers actionable insights you can implement immediately. Listen now and discover why a simple plastic deer might be the missing piece in your blacktail hunting puzzle.
Welcome back to the Blacktail Coach Podcast. I'm Aaron and I'm Dave. This week we're talking about decoys. You've used decoys before. Have you used them much with blacktail or ever? A little bit. Okay, it's very big for whitetail, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is one of the ways it's very big for whitetail.
Speaker 1:yes, what other species are they? I mean, I know it's turkey, it's a big deal.
Speaker 2:but Turkey you do a lot elk. They got the montana decoys and that's what I would say, for montana decoy has one for elk, for blacktail, for whitetail, for mule deer okay.
Speaker 1:Do you know people who use them for mule deer?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've seen stuff on tv where they're doing it and stuff, but I personally do not know anyone okay that has used it, but I've watched it on tv, read it in magazines and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So to me, thinking about black tail or using decoys for black tail, it's kind of a new concept. So I wanted to sort of flesh this out for everybody. As we get away from baiting, with it being illegal in Washington state, our friends down in Oregon are still able to do baiting Not that they wouldn't be able to do decoys as well. But yeah, I want to help everybody, help the listener, figure out if decoys could potentially work for them.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I would correct something that you said already, that it's a new concept. It's actually been around for a long time and again, popularity when McKinsey, when the 3D targets started coming out, guys were using their 3D targets as decoys On the West side. Much like sense. It's a strategy that's barely been touched.
Speaker 1:That's what I meant is more black tail.
Speaker 2:Right, it's a lot of guys around here because they've never considered that to be an option.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same thing with scents. Same thing with bait. Exactly, not really thinking that that's a tool you can have in your toolbox, right? So why don't you start Tell us your backstory with using decoys and times that you've used them?
Speaker 2:So using decoys a lot of people know that.
Speaker 2:I tree stand hunt. First got into this my buddy Steve in Kansas, who's also a pro staffer for Buck Ventures great guy. The first time I went down there filled my tag within the first few days of the hunt and got to spend the rest of the week with him. We went over strategies, how to do it and where to place your decoy and you know, through him have gotten a little bit of a. I won't say that I'm. I'm a how can you say a experienced decoy or a weathered decoy, but just enough to know that it does work. And just a few basic things that you need to remember. Like that fishing lure example, I use all the time. If you go into it with realistic expectations and you give it an opportunity, a time to, you're already using them or you're looking to experiment with something different.
Speaker 1:Since I've known you, you haven't necessarily had one.
Speaker 2:Use one for blacktail but and I think yeah, the reason for that is because of my sense and everything. I've never Needed to. I'm not saying that I need to now. We can still use synthetics and I get just as much result from synthetics as I do pure urines and sense and pheromones and all that stuff. I just was hoping to get some footage this year of some decoying deer and stuff, just like you were saying, to add another tool to that toolbox, something else in our arsenal to help guys be successful.
Speaker 1:But I think part of it is experimenting this year. So experimenting with some attractants some of the rat getter attractants or the tinks make some nose candy, I believe that's the name of it. But there's some attractants that we're going to be trying out this year different synthetics with different brands, because there's a few different brands of pheromones that you can use, and so I think there's a little bit more this year, experimentation with some of these items. And so we'll talk about decoys. But at the end of the season I want to do another episode, talking about where we landed with our experimenting. You know, always trying something new, and I know Chris, one of our pro staff. He's always trying out new products and different things. He's doing a lot with food plots this year. That's another thing. We want to find out how they responded to food plots because, blacktail, the way they eat is different.
Speaker 2:The browsers, not grazers.
Speaker 1:So a lot of this is just okay, let's figure out how do you use them and then, at the end of the season, coming back and saying, okay, this is what we saw, this is what we have video or pictures of their response to you know, this particular thing for decoys you just recently bought, found on facebook marketplace, was it? Yeah, you got a decoy yeah a black tail d.
Speaker 2:I got a screaming deal on a brand new decoy. Yeah, yeah, and so it can be a buck or a doe you just could be standing, it could be bedded, it could be calm, it can be angry as far as tipping the ears back aggressiveness.
Speaker 1:You can change its appearance.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:The ears are separate. They attach separately from the head right and the antlers. The legs are separate too. Everything fits inside the body cavity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty realistic looking as far as decoys go.
Speaker 1:So I know there was a particular company. I can't remember the name of the company. He was at the Sportsman Show a couple of years ago and we talked to him.
Speaker 2:Probably the most lifelike decoys I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:He had some really great looking decoys. Let's say that someone comes across some white tail decoys. Would those work? Can you use, like other species of decoys, or the deer, or would they pick up on that?
Speaker 2:No, you can use those. Decoying actually started getting big, I would say back when Delta and McKinsey started doing foam targets. Guys were taking their targets and using them as decoys and so, yeah, there was no black-tailed deer target out there, it was all white-tail. And you know, the deer just sees a deer. It doesn't differentiate between a white-tailed or a mule deer or anything like that that's not a correct rack on that thing.
Speaker 1:They're not racist at all, yeah.
Speaker 2:So they're fine with that, you know. And the same with urines with scents. Black tail, white tail, white tail we use that all the time, Black tail hunting and stuff. It doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 1:I think there's only one company I've come across with what they call black tail synthetics, and that being well, moccasin Joe, moccasin Joe. But Hot Scents was another one that I came across. That's right, moccasin Joe. I couldn't find that they had synthetics now, so I don't know if they discontinued, that they discontinued.
Speaker 1:But everything else is going to be whitetail. I'm to talk about the experimenting, conquest and Tinks. I'm going with the Tinks products this year, but those are the two companies I would probably go with just because, having read, they post a lot of their science behind it and I think they just have the money to really flesh those out. As far as quality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're two well-established companies that have been around for decades and produce high-quality products that we've been really successful with in the past.
Speaker 1:I know we've sworn by the EverCalm for years, so yeah, that stuff works. I'm switching over. I'll probably use the—it's called Dopey, but it's the bedding pheromone from Tinks. I'll probably switch over to that one. See how it works compared to the EverCalm. We haven't tried the EverCalm synthetic, so that'll be a new one this year From those companies. I really have no doubts that they're going to work just as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat with that. I don't have any worries about it working and not working.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that it'll produce what we need it to. Okay, so how are you staging a decoy out? And let's talk about this in the context of set hunting, because that's what we do Now. You could probably use these for glassing clear cuts as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I would think a Montana decoy would be better for that situation. There's a company that makes a decoy doe that fits on the face of your bow oh yeah. So that's a lot more mobile than the decoy I purchased. The decoy is like a 3D animal.
Speaker 1:It's life-size.
Speaker 2:So that's not going to be super mobile as far as something that you want to carry around all day under your arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's geared more towards set hunting. When you're doing a decoy, setup is important because it's just like duck hunting you don't just throw the decoys out there. You've got to set them up a certain way, to cause them to fly in a certain way which causes them to land in a certain spot. There's a lot more to it than just putting it out there With a deer decoy. If I'm in a tree stand, I don't want that decoy underneath my tree stand or at the base of the tree I'm in. I want that decoy out there facing me or broadside to me, facing the direction that I think the deer is going to come. If it's broadside, If it's facing me, I want it to be off to one side, away from where I think that buck is going to come from.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because the deer will approach a. If it's a buck decoy, I should stipulate that If I'm using a buck decoy that's how I want it the buck that I'm trying to target should circle around to the front of that deer. Okay, and so if that buck is at the base of my tree, then what I'm doing is allowing that buck to focus on the area where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If I have that decoy out there, if I can get it 20 yards, great. If I can't, I'm going to get it as far away from me as I can and have it facing me. It's going to cause that buck to circle that decoy and watch that decoy the whole time, so it'll be looking the opposite direction. So I'll have all the opportunity in the world to draw, get on this buck. Whatever movement I need to do, I'll be able to do that because he's focused on the buck that's out there away from me.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm trying to think of it in the context of my particular set. If I were to put him out there, my set, starting at maybe nine yards and they can enter from the left and the right, there's a half moon shape of viney, maple and fir trees that they could come through. Thinking about the other side of that, it's so thick in there For them to work their way around. I mean, there's not a lot.
Speaker 2:We must stipulate there too that you're out of a ground blind.
Speaker 1:You're not out of a tree stand.
Speaker 2:Ground blind's a little bit more difficult because it is thicker. So what I want to do is put it more toward the thicker stuff and force that buck to circle around more into the open. His attention needs to be drawn to the decoy and it will be.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They're going to recognize there's another buck and start sniffing it out. I've done my sense over there and he's never smelled that buck, so he's going to be focused on that buck. It becomes a dominance issue where he's going to bristle up and start getting all ruddy and walking around that buck. He'll approach it from the front, he won't approach it from the rear. Now if I'm using a doe decoy, most of the time those bucks will approach that doe decoy from the rear. So it's going to be the opposite of what I would do with a buck. I wouldn't face the decoy toward me. I'd put it either broadside or facing away a little bit.
Speaker 2:So, he circles around. He's wanting to find out if she's in standing. So he's going to circle around to the backside and I need him focusing again. I need that doe out there, so his attention is on the doe and not anywhere where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thinking as you're talking about setting this up. I'm just thinking in my particular set and, with the way everything's laid out, one of the things right before you actually went out there, it dawned on me because we are establishing a set field day on that particular set. I don't know why. It all of a sudden dawned on me right before you went out there, but I finally realized that the two dominant bucks I had High and Tight and Sneaky Pete, two very nice big bucks, came in from like 10 o'clock, out straight out of the thick stuff, all the non-dominant bucks. So I had a Spike, I had Kenobi, I had Brick, younger bucks or they just weren't the dominant buck, they always came in from three o'clock.
Speaker 2:Because it's a much more open trail.
Speaker 1:The two dominant bucks were always on the tail of a doe, coming in as well.
Speaker 2:And their dominant bucks are always going to stick to the thicker cover.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They just are. And if it's tight like that, where you don't have a lot of room, I don't want to introduce another buck. I want to use that decoy as a doe because I want that buck to come over to that decoy. Okay, that's a good point. I don't need him circling around. If I don't have the space for him to circle around, then it's kind of counterintuitive to put it out there. But if I do, yeah, put it out there, use it.
Speaker 1:Is there more to explain about when you would use a buck versus a doe?
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to a confidence thing. What do you think you've had more luck with? Some guys prefer if the rut is heavy. Both will work. If it's pre-rut, I would probably go with a buck myself. I wouldn't go to the doe until we hit the heavy part of the rut, because they're just going to be going all the time, you know. And then that second rut, it just depends. You know, yeah, If you got a, if you, you know what's your buck to doe ratio. And then another thing that I, you know, I'm always considering is if there is a high buck to doe ratio. I have a lot of bucks in the area. If I'm going to use that buck decoy, I typically want to do some rattling when I'm using that too, to kind of add to that illusion. If I'm doing the doe, then not very much, but every now and then just do a doe bleat.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:To help that illusion. We've got scents out there. We've got the decoy out there. Now let's put some audio out there yeah if they see it, which they should, it's going to seal the deal.
Speaker 1:They're going to come in focused on it now I saw somebody stop by the booth up in puyallup last year. He was talking about he used decoys quite a bit and he actually sprayed the doe and estrus on the back of the decoy and so it actually got mounted by the buck and he tore himself up by doing that because he was trying to impregnate a big chunk of plastic. But if it were a buck would you be spraying like buck urine on it, down the legs or something like the inside, where the hawks are and everything and a lot of it is predicated.
Speaker 2:The doe and estrus absolutely because I'll probably do a doe decoy more than I will a buck, and it's not that that I mean white tail are much more aggressive species of deer, even than than mule deer, you know yeah they. They tend to take over. But that's not saying that that black tails aren't aggressive either, because they are. I've seen them fight and watched them do that.
Speaker 2:I had that one buck that I passed up four times that season. Every time he came in he would snort, wheeze and he would just start horning all the other deer in the area. Just a very aggressive buck by temperament. But that time of year if I'm going to use that thing as a decoy, probably more as a doe, then I'm probably going to, you know, probably not do the buck urine as much. If I would do the buck urine it would probably be on the ground by the decoy behind it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Just because getting that scent off and doe urine on you know back and forth.
Speaker 1:So, thinking about that plastic now, are they going to have a smell, and I imagine that they do as much as they can for a decoy to not have any scent to it.
Speaker 2:Well, you want to spray it down with scent killer. Okay that's what I thought. I spray it down with dead down wind after I get done setting it up the field spray. Yeah, pretty much all over the body except for the rear end. Now I got the synthetic or the latex gloves on and everything and then on the rear and I try not to touch the rear end of the deer. And then when I apply the scent the doe and estrus it's on the backside.
Speaker 1:Okay If you were running it as a buck for a while. And side Okay If you were running it as a buck for a while.
Speaker 2:And then a doe you would do the buck urine on the ground behind it, but you would put the doe and estrus on the buck itself On the butt end of the doe. Okay.
Speaker 1:Now you talked about laying down versus standing up, so what would determine that as far as when you're going to have it, laying down or standing?
Speaker 2:Okay, I always want to do my buck standing up. I want to tip the ears back to make them look irritated and put them in a posture that's very aggressive and that sort of thing. But if I'm doing a doe, I typically want the doe to be bedded down because I mean I'm I just have a better. He'll circle around to get to the back end of that doe and he's really focused on her and his attention is really down low.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And because I tree stand hunt, that's what I want. And then see Right, right.
Speaker 2:And what I like to do is I'll take even with both buck and doe. I'll butt that up against some real thick stuff that's going to cause that buck that comes in to have to work at getting around to that. You know that doe and stuff, and if it's a buck I'll put his back up against it because I don't want that target buck to come out behind it. I want him to circle around and approach from the front on that buck.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So put his back against the thick stuff and have it facing me broadside.
Speaker 1:So put its back against the thick stuff and have it facing me broadside, and since the legs are removed, are they made so that you can have them laying down with the legs on, or is it just as it's bedded? It just has no legs, it just has no legs. Okay, they're just not picking up on it, because at that point, they don't realize it's a quadriplegic that they're after.
Speaker 2:They're so focused on the head. Don't realize it's a quadriplegic that they're after. You know.
Speaker 1:They're so focused on the head, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, whether it's a buck or a doe, that's what they're focused on and it's kind of funny. I mean they're just and it's not. I mean they don't come in and you know, accept it right away. They're a little tentative.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're always tentative.
Speaker 1:They can deer, but something's up here.
Speaker 2:It smells like a deer, but it's not moving like a deer, you know, yeah, it's not moving at all. No reaction to their action yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So they're a little timid, but they do come in how are you getting it propped up if it's standing to say you're doing a buck? Do they have it where you can stake it into the ground so it can't move?
Speaker 2:some decoys do, yes, some are just heavy enough that they're just going to stay there.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about the one you have in the garage. It's not heavy enough unless you were to fill the body.
Speaker 2:No, but I mean when you put the four legs out. I mean it's like it's, you know, you put a tripod out, three legs and it's going to stay up and so it doesn't blow over, because we'll get windstorms and stuff, and sometimes it does blow over.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Climb out of your blind or out of your tree. Stand and go, stand it back up.
Speaker 1:Or if I was thinking, if a buck comes, say you have it as a buck and a buck comes in, if it's maybe setting up that pecking order and it starts attacking it because I have seen videos of that where they do they will start go down To shoot the deer before it attacks your decoy They'll throw hands in the middle of the night. I don't leave it out overnight. Oh, you don't leave it out overnight. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:Carry in, carry out, but, like I said earlier, it's not something that you want to carry throughout the day going from spot to spot to spot, you know, and what makes it great. So it adds to the illusion that we've created the whole time. It just is another piece of that puzzle that Buck is looking for that you've just placed out there. You're adding to this scene that you've created, you've put in the smell, you've been working the smells, whether it's dominant Buck urine.
Speaker 1:Don't ask for it.
Speaker 2:So now he's thinking, okay, there's deer activity here. And now you've given him the visual oh, there is deer here to coincide with this deer activity. And so, yeah, it brings them in. And, like I said, the great thing about using a decoy is they're focused on the decoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Laser focused, you have plenty of time to draw or get your rifle or gun your pistol up and seal the deal. And if it's not the buck you want, you're going to get a good show, good footage, if you're filming that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So I was thinking about guys who are glassing clear cuts who maybe want to use it and I know you said that they had an attachment that went on the front of your bow or something. But what if they were taking a full-size decoy? So thinking about you know, it's maybe a level clear cut. I'm just thinking about where we took the guys up on the locating field day and there was that big clear cut right off the road. So would it make sense if a guy wanted to use a full-size decoy to maybe walk it down? If they've scouted that area beforehand, walk it down, found a game trail coming out of the thicker, bigger timber into the clear cut and maybe setting up that decoy just outside to draw? Would that draw deer out? Setting up the decoy just outside of that thick stuff?
Speaker 2:I don't see why it wouldn't. Okay, I'm just saying for practicality purposes. Is packing that thing around all day, going from cut to cut? If you're just going to hunt one cut? I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Let's get in there, let's get it set up and that's where we're going to spend our hunt. It's the full hunt. Right.
Speaker 1:It's to spend our hunt, it's the full hunt, right? It's not a leapfrog if you're running a gun, yeah, yeah. So whereas, like I just think of the predator hunting that dj did with dan where you know you go out, you, you put out the call. You know, 15 minutes later, if you don't get any coyotes coming in, you go to the next spot right, it's not a run that would be unpractical to do it that way.
Speaker 2:Could you do it that way? Yes, are you going to get tired doing it that way? Definitely.
Speaker 1:And I'm just thinking trying to walk through 200 yards of a clear cut would just be a pain in the butt anyway with all the down limbs and whatnot. But it seems like if you were watching a clear cut and you knew there's a big game trail right there that comes out of there, is that worthwhile to maybe set up a decoy 10 yards out of? That might lure them out, because if deer saw that decoy would they feel more confident in coming out into the open. Potentially it might be just small bucks, smaller bucks.
Speaker 2:yes, I would say bigger bucks are a lot more cautious.
Speaker 1:And they're not necessarily using that trail. Right, as you've said, they use different trails in the small bucks and the four-horned ones, those bucks but if your goal is meat hunting and you just want a buck to step out, that might be the way to go there. Absolutely. To wrap this up, are there any things of just do not do this with a decoy? Are there any things of just do not do this with a decoy? Anything that falls under that category of just don't do this with a decoy. You'll be shooting yourself in the foot, or maybe some gimmicky stuff that people have done and passed off as science, and it's just not.
Speaker 2:All I can say is don't put the decoy where you want the buck to stand. Put the decoy so that you're thinking the buck is going to because he's going to circle, whether it's a buck or a doe, he's going to circle a little bit, with a doe even, but put it where he's going to circle toward you, focusing away from you. That's the idea of using that decoy and stuff. Now, that's a full-sized decoy. If you've got the one that mounts, it's like a Montana decoy on the front of your bow. You don't have a choice. But the thing with that decoy is when he's focused on that decoy and he's coming into it, you could already be at full draw. You know what I mean. It's just designed that way and it's.
Speaker 2:They only make those in a doe that I'm aware of okay they might make it in a buck, but I don't know that that would be practical. But I think it's only a. I've only seen it as a doe. Let me just say that, okay, when the buck sees that he comes right in, they don't just come running at it, but they start moving towards you and you can get away with movement behind that decoy. It gives the illusion that the deer's body is moving a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking like having a decoy on your bow. I know that they get focused, but it just doesn't seem to be something I'd want to do, Because you're encouraging the buck to look right at you. But tunnel vision is tunnel vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when we get hooked on a girl?
Speaker 1:you don't see any.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of times you don't see the ones throwing themselves at you. You only see the one that isn't.
Speaker 1:The little kid. You're pointing at what you want them to pick up and they're picking up everything else. Yeah, so I guess tunnel vision is. It is not hindsight everything else, yeah, so I guess tunnel vision is.
Speaker 1:It is not hindsight, it's not 2020. There you go, much more defined, okay. So, like I said, we will report back at the end of season how the decoy worked. I don't know. I'm I don't know if I want to try it on my set because I'm in the heart of the rut with rifle, versus when you'll be out there during the second rut.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you to do the doe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's honestly thinking about how my set is laid out. I don't think I could put a buck in there. There's just not enough room for it to move around comfortably. It's either going to just take off or come charging in and rip it to shreds before I have a chance to do anything. So, anyway, we'll report back to you at the end of season and, as always, thanks for joining us this week.
